jpm@bnl.UUCP (John McNamee) (01/22/84)
> How much does the 80186 damage the ability to run MS-DOS > programs which were written for the IBM PC? There's an > enormous pile of valuable software written for the IBM PC, > but the better performance and graphics abilities of the > Tandy 2000 are very attractive. This raises another > question: Does anyone know just how "PC-compatible" the > Tandy 2000 graphics are, aside from the increased resolution > along the verticle axis? The 80186 damages the ability to make calls to the IBM BIOS ROM. Somebody at IBM didn't bother to read the part about "Reserved for Intel" in the 8088 specs. The graphics appear to be totally different. I would venture a guess that any program that does graphics will need to be changed to work on the 2000. Of course MicroSoft windows should solve all of the graphic compatability problems, but windows isn't available yet. > How about the disk drives? The ability to hold 720K (2 X > IBM) sounds neat, but how about the ability to read IBM > disks? I was looking at a Tandy 2000 one night when a guy > walked in with some disks from his IBM PC. We could do a > "dir" on his disks and see what was on them, but we couldn't > figure out how to read in any of the files... Really > frustrating. Supposedly, the drives can read IBM format > files, but we never did figure out how to make it happen. > Does anybody know? The 2000 can and does read IBM PC disks. Just use the normal COPY command. You may get some disks errors. Just open the drive door, close it again, and retry the sector. Reading 40 track disks in 80 track drives has never been perfect. I copied WordStar, r:base, and Lattice C this way from some PC disks and had no major problems (p.s. All 3 programs seem to work). > Recent reading indicates that the 8087 can increase the IBM > PC's performance by as much as an order of magnitude in > programs that are number-crunching intensive. Is there a > socket deep inside the Tandy 2000 just waiting for an 8087? > Will the 8087 device even work with the 80186? Yes, the 2000 has an 8087 socket. My personal opinion is that the 8087 is a marketing gimic. Unless you are writing your own software you will find very little that will take advantage of the 8087. Maybe this will change over time, but that is how things are now. > Supposedly, MS-DOS version 3.0 is due to be released soon. > Word has it that it will support multiple tasking. Does > anyone know if the 80186 or the Tandy 2000 hardware doesn't > do anything that is particularly important to MS-DOS 3.0? The 80186 is a faster chip than the 8088 even at the same clock speed, and at 8Mhz it blows the PC speed away. This will be a great help when running multiple tasks. Other than the extra speed I don't see any other advantage to the 186. > Speaking of Operating Systems, here's a hard question: will > it run the just-announced "PC/IX" UNIX-like OS that's a > derivative of System 3? I doubt it. PC/IX is probably tied to the IBM hard disk and the IBM BIOS ROM and as such will not work on the 2000. From what I hear about PC/IX this is not a great loss. > Hopefully, someone out there has access to a technical > hardware and/or software manual for the Tandy 2000. The > local Radio Shack Computer Store tells me that they can't > get any technical manuals until "maybe in February." I got to read over the schematics, but that was all the info the local repair shop had. Ask your local Radio Shack tech if you can look at their copy.
mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) (01/22/84)
==================
How about the disk drives? The ability to hold 720K (2 X IBM)
sounds neat, but how about the ability to read IBM disks? I was
looking at a Tandy 2000 one night when a guy walked in with some
disks from his IBM PC. We could do a "dir" on his disks and see
what was on them, but we couldn't figure out how to read in any
of the files... Really frustrating. Supposedly, the drives can
read IBM format files, but we never did figure out how to make
it happen. Does anybody know?
==================
I saw a demo of the Tandy 2000 at which some people came with discs
written by, compiled on and for an IBM-PC. They plugged them in and
ran the programs, which included cursor movements on the screen but
no graphics. They were impressed with the relative speed of reading/writing
floppies, and of some kind of repetitive computation. The dealer
didn't know a great deal about the machine. They had received it
that morning and had to pass it on to another dealer at lunchtime.
One thing the dealer DID know was that the IBM should not be expected
to read disks written in IBM-format by the 2000, unless a brand-new
disk was used. Apparently the writing heads are only half-width, and
half of the original data that should be overwritten would still be
there to confuse the wider heads on the IBM.
There is some IBM compatibility, obviously, but how far does it go?
The machine looks really nice, and if most programs for the PC will
run, it has a lot going for it. What it doesn't have is a public bus
structure. It seems as if you have to expand with Radio-Shack cards,
taking what they offer at their price. It could be a loss-leader.
Once you get the machine at $1000-$1500 cheaper than the "equivalent"
PC or XT, you then pay more for add-ons than you would for the IBM.
Anyone with further information on compatibility would be much thanked
for posting it to the net. Of particular interest would be C compiler
compatibility (esp. Computer Innovations).
--
Martin Taylor
{allegra,linus,ihnp4,uw-beaver,floyd,ubc-vision}!utzoo!dciem!mmtSTEVEH%mit-mc@sri-unix.UUCP (01/26/84)
From: Stephen C. Hill <STEVEH@mit-mc> As an addendum to RICK's review, I have heard of a high rate of DOAs on the color graphics board. This was from a Radio Shack employee, so (considering that this is negative info) it is probably correct. Once again, this verifies my feeling that pioneers gather arrows. If you are not looking for a production machine, this could be a good fit, otherwise, wait six months until the machine design settles down.
don@bmcg.UUCP (01/26/84)
x (munge me not) Some questions have popped up regarding the Tandy 2000. One of the main ones is: How much does the 80186 damage the ability to run MS-DOS programs which were written for the IBM PC? There's an enormous pile of valuable software written for the IBM PC, but the better performance and graphics abilities of the Tandy 2000 are very attractive. This raises another question: Does anyone know just how "PC-compatible" the Tandy 2000 graphics are, aside from the increased resolution along the verticle axis? How about the disk drives? The ability to hold 720K (2 X IBM) sounds neat, but how about the ability to read IBM disks? I was looking at a Tandy 2000 one night when a guy walked in with some disks from his IBM PC. We could do a "dir" on his disks and see what was on them, but we couldn't figure out how to read in any of the files... Really frustrating. Supposedly, the drives can read IBM format files, but we never did figure out how to make it happen. Does anybody know? Recent reading indicates that the 8087 can increase the IBM PC's performance by as much as an order of magnitude in programs that are number-crunching intensive. Is there a socket deep inside the Tandy 2000 just waiting for an 8087? Will the 8087 device even work with the 80186? Supposedly, MS-DOS version 3.0 is due to be released soon. Word has it that it will support multiple tasking. Does anyone know if the 80186 or the Tandy 2000 hardware doesn't do anything that is particularly important to MS-DOS 3.0? Speaking of Operating Systems, here's a hard question: will it run the just-announced "PC/IX" UNIX-like OS that's a derivative of System 3? Hopefully, someone out there has access to a technical hardware and/or software manual for the Tandy 2000. The local Radio Shack Computer Store tells me that they can't get any technical manuals until "maybe in February." Any and all information will be appreciated. Please reply by mail, unless you feel that your answers to these (and other?) questions will be of general interest. Don Deel ...sdcsvax!bmcg!don
mike@smu.UUCP (01/27/84)
#R:bmcg:-74000:smu:14300009:000:1539 smu!mike Jan 26 14:22:00 1984 ~s80186 in Tandy 2000 Regarding the processor compatibilty twixt the PC and the 2K: Although the iAPX 186 is supposed to be upward compatible from the iAPX 88, there are a couple of minor differences which could be important. The iAPX 186 has a sixteen bit external data bus and is thus capable of performing true sixteen bit I/O operations. Peripherals which contain eight bit devices with multiple registers (like a UART with command and data ports) might be mapped to consecutive addresses for the eight bit iAPX 88 bus; this presents a problem for the iAPX 186, which will expect eight bit data from even addresses on one half of the bus and data from odd addresses on the other half. I am not sure how common this problem might be. The other consideration is that the iAPX 186 has an illegal instruction trap. Of course, this should not be a problem for working software, but one never knows. The 8087 NPX poses the big problem. This chip was designed to reside on the local bus with an iAPX 86 or 88 and closely monitor the operation of the processor's internal que. This meant that both chips ran off of the same clock, a 33% duty cycle signal from the 8284 clock chip. The iAPX 186 has an internal mutant of the 8284 which produces a 50% duty cycle signal. What's more, the iAPX 186's internal chip select logic becomes useless, since the 8087 will want to run its own bus cycles occaisionally. I don't know whether Tandy used these lines or not. Mike McNally ...allegra!parsec!smu!mike
ded@aplvax.UUCP (01/27/84)
I was talking to an Intel man yesterday, and he informed me that a 8Mhz (or thereabouts) 8087 already exists, but requires a bus controller (kludge chip) to run with the 80186. Therefore, the 2000 better have two sockets waiting, not the one socket the salesmen are all touting. -- Don Davis JHU/APL ...decvax!harpo!seismo!umcp-cs!aplvax!ded ...rlgvax!cvl!umcp-cs!aplvax!ded
RICK%mit-mc@sri-unix.UUCP (01/28/84)
From: Richard P. Wilkes <RICK@mit-mc>
I have spent more than a few hours in the local Radio Shack working on a
Model 2000. I have decided to buy one. My reasons:
First of all, I love the keyboard. I use my systems for word processing
mostly (I love Word Perfect by Satellite Software International in Orem,
Utah; let me know if you want any info on it). The keyboard layout is
much better than the PC's and altho I realize that is not saying much,
it is a big factor. The function keys (12) are along the top row, which
I find easier to use than the left side pads. The arrow keys are
between the keyboard and keypad and arrange in a logical arrangement:
Up Home
Left Down Right
Secondly, the machine is blazing fast. I write application programs as
a side-line for small businesses. One small BASIC program took around
15 seconds to go through a search loop; on the 2000, it took around 6
seconds. Several other programs I tested showed similar improvements.
Radio Shack insists that the MSDOS version they are running does *not*
take advantage of the 80186 extra instructions; so, they say that there
should be any incompatibilities caused by that. All the BASIC programs
I tested worked fine. I was able to read IBM formatted disks by simply
copying the files from the disk. Remember, the 96tpi drives may not be
in exact alignment with the IBM drives; I didn't have any trouble,
though.
The programs that directly access the video memory will probably not
work. I was able to get my PC version of Word Perfect running fine
except that it couldn't set the colors properly. Other programs such as
Lotus 1-2-3 won't work. Word Star does, others may not.
My best advice for those interested in the machine is to call the
manufacturer of the software that interests you and find out when a Mod
2000 version will be available. Word Perfect for the 2000 including
keyboard template will be shipped in around two weeks. All other major
applications packages that I am interested in are either available for
the 2000 or will be within the next month. Apparently, the conversion
job is trivial; just a matter of resetting some memory addresses and
color registers. Tandy even has an Outside Software Vendor Support
hotline available to companies converting software. 'Bout time...
In all, I feel the machine is a winner. Of the 110 odd units shipped to
the Baltimore area, not has had so much as a glitch; poor repair guys
haven't had a chance to play with one.
There are of course disadvantages. Tandy is not very quick with the
technical manuals, which means the hardware vendors will be slow coming
out with expansion boards. But, this time it appears that we won't be
limited to Tandy supplied software!
This is a serious machine, and the color graphics are superb (if you
need them). And the price is right! Discounted, you can get a 10M hard
drive system with a 720K floppy, monochrome display with high-res
graphics, 256K RAM for $4K. The floppy system with 2 drives is around
$1K less.
-Rick at MIT-MC