gaia@portia.Stanford.EDU (fai to leung) (05/25/90)
Let see if I can make some sense out of my posting on "A hypothetical experiment" I started with some statements on the process to reach the differentiation state, i.e. a certain sense of direction "towards" that state. Then I backtrack "away" from that state, along the way, a digression on some remotely related matters, then backtrack again, finally ending on a kind of question. Hm... If I can find a piece of music, with features "towards" and "away" from a certain state, and on the "away" path there is a digression, i.e. a sort remotely related features, then back again, and ends with a certain state; and also I regard the posting a discourse in the English language, can I transfer the notion that the posting carries some meaning to this piece of music? But wait, each English word carries some meaning (i.e. the usual way we use this word), but not the case in the piece of music! How about the word "walawala"? It carries no meaning at all in the English language. At its last appearance as "syntatic-grammatical-walawala", does it carry a meaning just because of its appearance in the context and the words that it attached to. To a certain extent, I think yes. But in the piece of music we don't even have words of meaning to attached to! Is there any existence that we refer to as meaningful and its being meaningful relies only on the context of its elements and not references to say, the English language? How about math, or, say a certain computing language expressed in BNR form? If we say they are meaningful, can the notion be transferred to some music that exhibits similarities to these existence?
bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker) (05/28/90)
In article <1990May25.082956.27866@portia.Stanford.EDU> gaia@portia.Stanford.EDU (fai to leung) writes: |Let see if I can make some sense out of my posting on |"A hypothetical experiment" | |I started with some statements on the process to reach the differentiation |state, i.e. a certain sense of direction "towards" that state. Then I |backtrack "away" from that state, along the way, a digression on some |remotely related matters, then backtrack again, finally ending on a |kind of question. Hm... | |If I can find a piece of music, with features "towards" and "away" from |a certain state, and on the "away" path there is a digression, i.e. |a sort remotely related features, then back again, and ends with a certain |state; and also I regard the posting a discourse in the English language, |can I transfer the notion that the posting carries some meaning to this |piece of music? | |But wait, each English word carries some meaning (i.e. the usual way we |use this word), but not the case in the piece of music! Of course it can! Specific pieces of music have very specific cultural referents, which most in some given cultural context agree to and share. This is not to say that all music has this character, any more than all uses of vocal sounds are "language". |How about the word "walawala"? It carries no meaning at all in the English |language. At its last appearance as "syntatic-grammatical-walawala", does |it carry a meaning just because of its appearance in the context and the |words that it attached to. To a certain extent, I think yes. The use of the word "wala" usually can be traced to French influence - it's a corruption of "voila". In English it becomes usually dialectal for "aha", "taa-daa", or other expletives. Thus "walawala" is likely an emphatic form. |But in the piece of music we don't even have words of meaning to attached to! The fact that "wala" has a history of linguistic association parallels the fact of musical association - a lot of musical "ideas" are not new at all, rather conscious or unconscious reworkings of older forms that are well understood. -- ,u, Bruce Becker Toronto, Ontario a /i/ Internet: bdb@becker.UUCP, bruce@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu `\o\-e UUCP: ...!uunet!mnetor!becker!bdb _< /_ "I still have my phil-os-o-phy" - Meredith Monk
gaia@portia.Stanford.EDU (fai to leung) (05/29/90)
In article <12542@becker.UUCP> bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker) writes: > The use of the word "wala" usually can be > traced to French influence - it's a corruption > of "voila". In English it becomes usually > dialectal for "aha", "taa-daa", or other > expletives. Thus "walawala" is likely an > emphatic form. It can be traced further to the Great Deluge. In Codex Araratus, Anonymous Nautilus I described the word as "the very last sound that the survivors heard at that tragic moment: (Folio R-VI v) walawalawa...wala...lawala..."voila"...wala."voila"..walawalawala..."voila" ...walawala...."voila"..."voile"...walawala...." According to "On the Origin of Speeches" by the late Sir James Issacson, the first word that utterred by the surviors when land was at sight: "aha", and that of their first step on the dried land "taa-daa". > The fact that "wala" has a history of > linguistic association parallels the fact > of musical association - a lot of musical > "ideas" are not new at all, rather conscious > or unconscious reworkings of older forms > that are well understood. Indeed. Furthermore, somewhere down the line of inquiry lies two obvious and important constants, namely the phyiscal laws of nature, and the physiology of the human vocal and aural apparatus.