mem@sii.UUCP (Mark Mallett) (01/29/84)
b
Greetings.
A few weeks ago I requested information on systems using National's
NS16032 processor (and family), and I posted a preliminary summary
a little later (I got the x's in the wrong place, but nobody seemed
to care). This article is the "non-preliminary" (liminary?) summary.
I have received only one additional response since then; thus the
information herein is different only in quantity- the first summary
was basically a list of system names, this one contains more information.
What it boils down to was a lot of information (which follows; read on)
on three systems:
- Silicon Valley Micro
- Elite Corporation (Ebnic)
- Syte Information Technology
some information (again, which follows) on
- GVC (translation unknown)
and reports of systems (no other information following) by
Godbout and Compupro with S-100 xx032 boards
National's own boards; one for multibus and one for their
own workstation on a private bus. Two respondants claimed
extreme slowness for the latter.
LMC (again, translation unknown). A multibus board, runs HCR (?)'s
port of 4.1bsd. Other details (like address, phone number,
name of company, memory, ports, speed, etc) unknown.
Symmetric Systems: single-cpu private bus board (to become
dual-CPU with color graphics; whether this means one cpu for
graphics processing only or multiprocessing system is unknown);
multibus and ibm-pc (!) adaptors available; runs 4.2bsd (again !).
Same comment as for LMC, above, re: unknown details.
Unidot Corp has a dual CPU multibus board. Other data, as above,
unknown.
Tolerant Systems with multiple CPU board rumor, no other data.
Ditto for "Spectragraphics".
Tektronix is rumored to be making a unix workstation with NSxx.
The information that I got came from usenet mail and captured netnews
from the following people:
flairvax!kissell
druny!jml
dartvax!mss
tekecs!johnl
sdchema!donn
inmet!wkb
fluke!kurt
and from magazine advertisements; much of the detailed data came from
my brother Bruce Mallett who called several of the sources identified
by usenet folks. Thank you very much.
The promised details follow. For the most part, these descriptions
have not been edited; I find that I can not reduce them to a great
degree so am just passing them on. Note that the "other-than-complete"
descriptions were only summarized (above).
(from Bruce):
Called ELITE CORPORATION, Wichita Kansas (1-316-942-6619) and spoke
to Steve Keller. Their system is as follows;
9 Slot VME bus in a desktop configuration about the size of a terminal.
10 Mcycle NS16032 with NS MMU and FPU
512k byte memory expandable to 3meg. with 64k x 1 technology.
expandable to 12meg. when 256k x 1 chips become available.
5meg fixed and 5 removable (uses Memorex & DMA Systems drives).
Graphics card supports 1k x 1k x 1 (monochrome). This is displayable
if you want to pay for the monitor. Their system uses a lower
cost monitor however, and only 768 x 624 is displayable.
3 RS232 ports, one is used by the keyboard. Other terminals may be
connected to the remaining 2 ports for a multiuser system.
Winchester controller supports ST506 and SASI interfaces.
VAX-VMS like operating system is supplied with Fortran-77, C, and
other languages which I did not write down.
Price : $17900.
Notes;
By April they will have available Berkeley 4.1 VM UNIX,
a new CPU board which supports both 16032 and 32032.
This board has 32kb of 35 nanosecond cache; current
tests show an 80% hit rate.
Unix will be an extra cost item: $1200.
Near future: 10meg fixed & 10meg removable.
Been shipping systems for 2 months.
They have a distribution and sales network setup for Europe,
very little as yet in the US.
They system they sell is made by EBNIC (sp?).
They have for some time been selling VMS-like environment
systems. First on TI9900, then MOTOROLA 6809 (amazing)
and 68000, now on NS xx032.
General impressions;
Steve Keller seems very knowledgable about what he is
selling, and was very helpful.
Looks nice, but is expensive and why should I buy a VMS
like system for $17900 (with very little memory and next
to no disk) from them when I can buy the real thing from
DEC? Surely with the new micro-VAX I can get at least
this capability (excepting the graphics) for the same
dollars!
(from dartvax!mss):
Syte Information Technology came by last Thursday and talked to us about their
NS16032 based system. Unfortunately, we didn't get to see a working piece of
hardware. A summary of the information we got follows.
Syte offers high performance work stations (though they do not use that word).
The station consists of a box that can hold 8 boards, a screen (bit mapped
display), mouse, and a keyboard. At the moment, you also have to get a hard
disk, but that is planning on being optional. The only board you need is a CPU
board. In the minimum configuration, the CPU board has 1 megabtye of memory and
a single 16032 processor (10MHz clock) and MMU (to be upgraded to 32032 when
chip supply is sufficient and reliable). The system can hold up to 4 XX032
processors. The 4 processors share an address space. In the absence of any other
boards, 1/4 megabtye of CPU board is used for display memory for the bit map
display. The CPU board also has 4 multibus slots, ethernet connection, Intel
80186 for high speed i/o, Intel 8051(?) for slow speed i/o, and an interface for
a Centronix printer.
Three other kinds of cards are available: Graphics, Memory and "Accelerator"
which I interpret as floating point and numeric support. The graphics card hold
the graphics memory, performs bit blt, and provides line graphics and raster ops
for the bitmap display. The 1 megabyte of memory on the graphics display can
support up to 4 bit-mapped displays (we were told that four users might share a
single workstation, hence the need to share the graphics board as well). The GKS
graphics standard is also supposed to be provided (I do not know what this is).
The memory board is used, not surprisingly, to add more memory. Total amount of
memory for a workstation is 15 megabytes, though I am not sure how much goes on
a CPU card and how much on each memory card. Apparently this is subject to the
currently available memory chips. The accelerator board runs at 1 MFLOP.
They have Unix System V and Smalltalk-80. 4.2 BSD is coming soon. We were also
told a series of other languages but I didn't catch if they are ready to go, to
be available soon, or planned in the indefinite future: Pascal, Ada, C, Fortran.
Misc. Info.: One can add more than one board of each kind into the 8 slots. The
system is in Beta test. The 8-slot model draws 20 amps. A 4-slot version is
planned that will take less power (and cost less). A diskless version is slated
to cost about $16K. With a 5 1/4 inch Winchester, $25K.
Design Philosophy: The system is supposed to be an "object oriented"
architecture, with every device, process and file an object. It is not clear if
activation records are objects or if a process must be allocated. No information
on object identification. An article in Electronic Design, Dec. 22, '83,
describes some their ideas, including GEM, Global Environment Manager.
Apparently GEM handles all file, object and process manipulation. Objects are
hierarchically ordered, like Simula, with local procedures called "methods",
like Smalltalk. The article implies that a search for a method name in an object
always occurs on every method invocation (procedure call). There is also an
implication that one can (invisibly) call methods of objects anywhere on the
network. Other implications in the article: you have to use the builtin file
system, process handler and message passing protocols. Although some protection
facilities were alluded to, it sounds more like Unix access control bits than
Hydra or 432 capabilities.
We were given some confidential materials to look at, but I decided to write
this first to make sure that everything I said I got "openly". Given the
nature of the company (one year old, in beta test), some details are bound
to change. The person who talked with us was James VanBeek. The address
of Syte is 11339 Sorrento Valley Road, San Diego, CA 92121, (619)457-2270.
If anyone has info on Syte systems or other 16032 based systems, we at
Dartmouth would like very much to here about them.
(from druny!jml):
Has anyone out there heard of a company called Silicon Valley Micro? It
has announced a transportable micro called "Go For It!". Below is a list
of standard features from a flyer they sent me.
$5,000 Model | $10,000 Model
________________________________|_________________________________________
NS32032 & Intel 8088 | NS32032 & 8088
|
128 KB for NS32032 | 1.5 MB for NS32032
384 KB for Intel 8088 | .5 MB for Intel 8088
|
2 Half Height 5-1/4 " | 2 Half Height 5-1/4"
Double-sided double-density | Double-sided double-density
360 KB per drive | 360 KB per drive
|
- | 5 1/4", 140 MB Maxtor harddisk
|
80 col builtin thermal printer | 80 col builtin thermal printer
|
- | 1/4", 60 MB streamer tape
|
9", amber, 80x25 monitor | 9", amber, 80x25 monitor
|
UNIX subset, MS-DOS 2.0, C | UNIX 5.0, MS-DOS 2.0, C
|
Keytronic (IBM-PC) keyboard | Keytronic (IBM-PC) keyboard
|
1 RS232 Serial port | 1 RS232 Serial port
1 RS232C Parallel port | 1 RS232C Parallel port
________________________________|_________________________________________
Extra Cost Options:
64 KB chip, ram expansion up to 2MB MS-BASIC Compiler
256 KB chip, ram expansion up to 2MB MS-Business BASIC Compiler
380 MB, Maxtor disk drive MS-Pascal Compiler
Speech Recognition MS-C Compiler
Voice Output MS-muLISP/muSTAR Compiler
Touch Sensitizers FORTRAN 77 Compiler
Mouse VisiON Operating Environment
Handwriting input Communications
230v, 50 Hz (European power supply)
President: Gene Finkler
The address is: 4010 Moorpark Ave, #213
San Jose, CA 95117
Phone #s: 408 246-1101
408 246-1102
408 246-1103
408 246-1104
I saw two of these machines at Comdex but wasn't allowed to touch them, let
alone play with them. The machines were supposed to be running MS-DOS and
UNIX but, I couldn't say for sure from looking at the demos. Gene Finlker
wasn't very informative or friendly since I wasn't a dealer. If anyone has
some more info I'm sure others on the net would like to hear about it.
Also, if some of our friends in the Bay Area could possibly check into this
company I'd appreciate it. I heard that David Fiedler of UNIX Review was
very interested in the machine, so, maybe in the next issue there will be
an article.
(from Bruce):
Called Silicon Valley Micro yesterday. I did not get the name of the
person who I talked to, but this is what he told me;
SVM is 1.5 yrs. old and consists of 4 guys. They had been doing some
research into the usefulness of 32 bit micro processors and apparently
published some sort of article/report in MiniMicro Systems (Aug 1983
page 187). They built a machine around the NSxx032 micro, took it to
COMDEX with the hopes of getting between 40 and 100 inquiries. Todate
they have received 1680 inquiries. Origional plans were to introduce
2 models: the model 5 and the model 10. Interest in their product
caused them to re-think this, they now plan 5 different models. By
the way the model number is directly proportional to the price, using
the following formula;
$ Price = (model #) * $1000
Therefore model 5 will cost $5000, model 10 $10000, etc.
Anyway ... my contact at SVM said 'get a pencil and paper ... '
A recorder would have been more appropriate, for I have no short-hand
skills and after 1680 inquiries you can bet that he had his recital
pretty well down pat. So take the below translation of my frantic
scribblings with a grain of silicon;
Model 5;
32032 & 8088 processors, IBM compatible (I don't know
at what level). Two 1/2 high 5.25 inch floppy disk
drives, 512kb memory, 9.5 inch monochrome monitor,
Unix vs 7, MSDOS. Portable unit weighing 26 pounds.
Model 10;
32032 & 8088 processors. 75 megabyte Hard Disk, 20mb
streamer for backup. One 1/2 high 5.25 inch floppy,
12 inch monochrome monitor, Unix vs. 7 supporting up
to 4 users. Weighs 32 lbs.
Model 15;
32032 & 8088 processors. Floating Point Unit (here
he mentioned 8087 I believe as an option ... I there-
fore do not know whether the National FPU is used
with the ability to add the 8087 to the 8088, or if
the 8087 is THE FPU), 1.5mb memory, 175mb Hard Disk,
one 1/2 high 5.25 inch floppy, 40mb streamer, Berkeley
Vs 4.1 UNIX.
Model 20;
As above except: 2mb memory, 280mb Hard Disk, 60mb
streamer, 12 inch color monitor, Unix vs 5 for up
to 8 users.
Model 25;
As above except: 2.5 mb memory, 380mb Hard Disk, 60mb
streamer, Unix vs. 5 for up to 10 users.
Their plans are to build 50 units, ship 10 to beta test sites,
30 to various magazines for evaluation. July 1 introduction.
Rather ambitious for 4 guys. They took my address and will be
sending me info. Pardon my skepticism, but anyway ...
Good Luck guys.
(from inmet!wkb):
I have read some literature from a company called GVC. They are producing a
multibus 16032 board. The details of it are as follows:
CPU 16032 CPU; Sockets for 16081 FPU;
16082 MMU.
Memory 512 Kb RAM, no wait state, parity checked;
RAM is Dual Ported for multibus access.
Expansion to 2 Megabytes with 256K chips.
I/O 4 Serial I/O channels (50 - 38.4K baud);
1 Real Time clock with battery back-up;
1 Winchester Disk Port.
Software Contained in ROM is a moniter and debugger.
Also included is a BASIC interpreter. A port
of UNIX (Berkeley 4.1) is in progress.
Price $3295 from GVC
222 3rd Street
Cambridge, MA
(617) 576-1804
That about wraps it up. Thanks again, and I hope you find this
information interesting.
Mark E. Mallett
decvax!sii!memdbj%rice@sri-unix.UUCP (02/02/84)
From: Dave Johnson <dbj@rice>
I can add a little information to your list of 16032 systems available.
Compupro (a division of Godbout, so these are in fact the same company) does
make (is making?) a 16032 board for IEEE-696/S-100 bus. From a recent copy
of Compupro's catalog, here are some specs on the CPU 16032 board:
- Full 32 bit internal archetecture.
- 24 bit addressing accesses 16 Megabytes of memory.
- 16 Megabytes of non-segmented address space.
- Power-On-Jump capability using the On-Board ROM.
- Socket for optional NS16082 Memory Management Unit (MMU).
- Supports virtual memory and page protection.
- Socket for optional NS16081 Floating Point Unit (FPU).
- FPU can handle 32 bit and 64 bit floating point numbers.
- Sockets for up to 32K bytes (16K x 16) of optional ROM.
- Byte swap circuitry for operation with 8 or 16 bit memory.
- Flexible wait state circuitry for slower peripheral devices.
- Complies fully to the IEEE 696/S-100 bus specifications.
- 16 bit I/O address capable of addressing 64K I/O devices.
- Requires unregulated +8 volt supply only.
Timing ....................... Meets all IEEE 696 specifications.
Clock Rate ................... Up to 10 MHz.
Address Bits ................. 24 bits; addresses 16 Megabytes.
Data Bus ..................... 16 bits; also compatible with 8 bit memory and
Input/Output devices.
Input/Output ................. Memory mapped in 64K bytes at FE000 (hex).
Wait States .................. Provisions for up to 7 jumper selectable
wait states.
Master Status ................ Board is implemented as a permanent master.
pRESET*, SLAVECLR* ........... Generated at power-on.
MWRITE Generator ............. Provided through a switch option.
CLOCK (bus pin 49) ........... 2 MHz square wave.
Power-On-Jump ................ Implemented with first few bytes in ROM.
Virtual Memory ............... Optional with the NS16082 MMU.
Memory Protection ............ Optional with the NS16082 MMU.
Math Functions ............... Optional with the NS16081 FPU.
Sockets ...................... Provided for all IC's.
P.C. Board ................... High Quality double-sided epoxy, solder masked
both sides, component legend, plated through
holes, gold plated edge connector fingers,
standard size (5 x 10 inches).
The bad news is that the board is apparantly still not available. The best
I've heard is "sometime this year". Has anybody heard more on this?
Also, a company called Inner Vision advertised a 16032 CPU board for the
S-100 bus with a Z80 (sigh...) also on the same board. I don't have that
ad with me now, though. If anybody is interested, I could dig it up and at
least give you their address and/or phone number.
Anybody know of any other IEEE 696/S-100 16032 CPU boards?
Dave Johnson
Dept. of Math Science
Rice University
dbj@ricehart@cp1.UUCP (02/11/84)
Look for XENIX for the Godbout systems
in the near future. I could not get any info
about the cpu, but my money is on the 68000.
--
======================================================================
signed: Rod Hart (wa3mez)
Chesapeake & Potomac Tel. Co.
Bell Atlantic Inc.
Silver Spring, Md.
gamma!cp1!hart - eagle!cp1!hart - sb6!cp1!hart - bpa!cp1!hart
======================================================================mats@dual.UUCP (Mats Wichmann) (02/15/84)
One more S-100 company doing 16032's - Empirical Research Group
up in Seattle. I am not sure, however, if they are doing their 16032
work on the IEEE-696 bus or on the VME bus, which they are also working on.
The CompuPro board has been pretty much available for several
months now, execpt that what good does it do them to sell it
with no software....they have been slightly burned on some similar
marketing things in the past, and are taking the cautious approach
this time. Software work IS in progress, but it is all supposed
to be hush-hush so I will be a good boy and not say anything. Expect
announcements on this quite soon, however.
Mats Wichmann
Dual Systems
Berkeley, CA.
{ucbvax,amd70,ihnp4,cbosgd,decwrl,fortune)!dual!mats