ccastmg@prism.gatech.EDU (Michael G. Goldsman) (09/09/90)
Does anyone know of a third party who publishes the manual for Finale??
or.... will Coda sell the manual alone??
or.... Can i buy the manual from someone out there??
or.... Must I forever walk upon the cruel face of the earth alone
and manualless???
-Mikea577@mindlink.UUCP (Curt Sampson) (09/09/90)
> ccastmg@prism.gatech.EDU writes: > > Person: Michael G. Goldsman > > Does anyone know of a third party who publishes the manual for Finale?? > or.... will Coda sell the manual alone?? > or.... Can i buy the manual from someone out there?? > or.... Must I forever walk upon the cruel face of the earth alone > and manualless??? Well, Mike, you should just be able to call Coda, give them your serial number, and ask for a replacement for the manual you lost. If you have a pirated copy of Finale, tough luck. I suspect that many other people out there share my dislike of people who steal software. It's probably not a good idea to advertise to thousands upon thousands of people that you've stolen Finale. -cjs ( Curt_Sampson@mindlink.UUCP )
mshapiro@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (Blind Man With A Vision) (09/12/90)
In article <13462@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccastmg@prism.gatech.EDU (Michael G. Goldsman) writes: >Does anyone know of a third party who publishes the manual for Finale?? >or.... will Coda sell the manual alone?? >or.... Can i buy the manual from someone out there?? >or.... Must I forever walk upon the cruel face of the earth alone > and manualless??? > Only if you continue to acquire software through irregular channels... >-Mike -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- | Will the sun go out when God shuts his refridgerator door? | | Mitch Shapiro mshapiro@polyslo.calpoly.edu | -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
ramsiri@blake.u.washington.edu (Enartloc Nhoj) (12/14/90)
I am VERY close to purchasing FINALE for the MAC. From what I gather, it is perhaps the best publishing program available on any platform. My next project will require the printing of over 600 pages of music. I'd like to know of ANY and ALL quirks and bugs and so on that are causing people the greatest headaches. For example, the other day, a member of this group mentioned that his machine locked up once the file he created reached 8 pages in length. I tried getting word about this from Coda but have had no luck getting "the right guy" to answer for me. Basically, what are FINALE's weaknesses, bugs, quirks etc... Also, what would be a rough estimate on the time it takes to print a page on a postscript printer? (I know there are many factors)... Someone told me it may take as much as an hour to print one page! Is that possible? Since purchasing FINALE will also mean purchasing a MAC and laser printer etc... (I will have to sell my Atari 4MB system with NOTATOR etc)... I'd like to make sure i am not selling one headache and buying another. Your response is very much appreciated. Thank you. ramsiri@blake.acs.washington.edu BTW: any accelerators that don't get along with FINALE or midi?
briang@bari.Eng.Sun.COM (Brian Gordon) (12/14/90)
In article <12925@milton.u.washington.edu> ramsiri@blake.u.washington.edu (Enartloc Nhoj) writes: > > >I am VERY close to purchasing FINALE for the MAC. From what I gather, >it is perhaps the best publishing program available on any platform. > >My next project will require the printing of over 600 pages of music. > [...] Check with your sources on MusicProse (also from Coda) as an alternative. If the marketing hype I received is to be believed, MusicProse is the manuscripting portions of Finale made more robust, stand-alone, and with added enhancements -- making it BETTER than Finale for manuscripting. There are lots of things Finale does that MusicProse doesn't even try to do, by I have heard a Code rep claim that it is substantially better than Finale at what it does do. -- :-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-: | Brian G. Gordon briang@Sun.COM (if you trust exotic mailers) | | ...!sun!briangordon (if you route it yourself) | :-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
mgresham@artsnet.UUCP (Mark Gresham) (12/14/90)
In article <12925@milton.u.washington.edu> ramsiri@blake.u.washington.edu (Enartloc Nhoj) writes: >I am VERY close to purchasing FINALE for the MAC. From what I gather, >it is perhaps the best publishing program available on any platform. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'd disagree strongly with that. I would place both A-R Editions Sun/Unix-based system at the top, followed quickly by SCORE version 3.0. >My next project will require the printing of over 600 pages of music. There's the start of your problems with FINALE. > For example, the other day, >a member of this group mentioned that his machine locked up once >the file he created reached 8 pages in length. I tried getting word >about this from Coda but have had no luck getting "the right guy" to >answer for me. You're going to have some bug appear with any of the best programs. However, if you're unable to get adequate answers, that should tell you something! A demo of FINALE I attended in St. Paul, I noted that although the input of simpler music had a graceful, user-appealing feel, any level of genuine complexity both baffled the demonstrator (musically; the "can you do this" questions primarily coming from myself anbd Alice Parker) and required slow, extensive editing. >Since purchasing FINALE will also mean purchasing a MAC and laser printer >etc... (I will have to sell my Atari 4MB system with NOTATOR etc)... No! No! NO! There is a new version of FINALE for IBM-clone PC/AT! I'm having someone review it right now. Several things to know so far: If your processor time is premium, you should know that FINALE uses a *lot* of time on screen graphics instead of skeleton-drawn but well-placed screen symbols. You need a very fast machine to keep from losing patience, most recommended is a full-blown 386, not an SX. The SX is visibly slower. You will also need WINDOWS 3.0. (We're about to try it with WINDOWS 2.0). By comparison, I'm currently running SCORE v. 3.0 on a Packard Bell 286-AT at 12Mz. SCORE does not waste screen-building time like FINALE. (The monitor is a Hercules monochrome, BTW) WINDOWS is not required. I would quickly say that your msavings in hardware costs (buying a 286 instead of a MAC or a full-blown 386) will more than offset the several hundred dollars more you'll pay for SCORE. (And I think that the MAC FINALE costs more than the IBM-clone FINALE.) The results from SCORE are superior, in my book. FINALE has never satisfied me either with their slurs or horizontal symbol spacing. As for LEARNING CURVE: SCORE v.3.0 is light-years ahead of their v.2.xx on that. Their documentation, this time developed by William Holab (music editor at G. Schirmer, NY) is excellent, thoroughly reorganized, and written from the professional music editor's perspective. The improvements in the program (text handling, pagination, array-handling and total capacity, vastly extended symbol libraries, more improvements in slurring, insertion of raw PostScript commands as items, etc.) also have made what was almost a nightmare with v. 2.x and earlier a genuine breeze with v.3.0. >I'd like to make sure i am not selling one headache and buying another. Be VERY careful. While a program like SCORE will have an APPARANTLY longer startup to the learning curve, you will probably find you will save time especially in editing complex scores and in handling large numbers of pages. Even if you DO decide on FINALE, you will probably be better off on the IBM-clone 386 DOS platform in the long run (especially if you finally decide you DON'T like FINALE after all). And last, but not least, do you have any idea how long 600 pages is going to take you? Sounds like a hymnbook to me! If it IS a hymnbook, then you will surely want to use SCORE, as I've seen to examples of hymnbooks set with FINALE. You will have severe problems with spacing. SCORE has a 'justify accounting for text' capability which solves that nicely. (One of the FINALE hymnbooks betrayed some cut-and-paste markings where words were positioned BY HAND.) When I first used SCORE (back as far as version 1.xx) it was a frustrating experience, though the results were still the best I'd seen. With v.3.0, the frustration level has disappeared down to nearly nil. The few bugs remaining are basically extreme array-handling situations which cause floating point errors, or the very rare case of absent, misaligned, or mis-valued symbols that make justification throw up (easily fixed if you save the file before justification). Cheers, --Mark ======================================== Mark Gresham ARTSNET Norcross, GA, USA E-mail: ...gatech!artsnet!mgresham or: artsnet!mgresham@gatech.edu ========================================
ramsiri@blake.u.washington.edu (Enartloc Nhoj) (12/15/90)
In article <1076@artsnet.UUCP> mgresham@artsnet.UUCP (Mark Gresham) writes: >In article <12925@milton.u.washington.edu> ramsiri@blake.u.washington.edu (Enartloc Nhoj) writes: >>I am VERY close to purchasing FINALE for the MAC. From what I gather, >>it is perhaps the best publishing program available on any platform. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >I'd disagree strongly with that. >I would place both A-R Editions Sun/Unix-based system at the top, >followed quickly by SCORE version 3.0. Please tell me more about A-R.. i think i may have called that company about a year ago.. i got the impression that while the final ouput of a score was truly engraving quality.. the input of the musical information was strictly ascii... I am not personally interested in conceiving of music in a non musical way. After all.. i would like to use the progam for composition as well.. > >>My next project will require the printing of over 600 pages of music. > >There's the start of your problems with FINALE. WHY? My 600+ pages will actually be a combination of score and text. I am hoping that importing encapsulated Poscript Scores to a DTP program won't be too much of a hassle.. not all scores will need cutting and pasting.. but i definitely will need the capablility importing music into a document. SInce ATARI's NOTATOR has a proprietary file format which doesn't allow anything greater than a screen dump (bit mapped) to a file, i am forced to get into a program such as FINALE.. or perhaps SCORE.. as you intimate. >You're going to have some bug appear with any of the best >programs. However, if you're unable to get adequate answers, that >should tell you something! A demo of FINALE I attended in St. >Paul, I noted that although the input of simpler music had a >graceful, user-appealing feel, any level of genuine complexity >both baffled the demonstrator (musically; the "can you do this" >questions primarily coming from myself anbd Alice Parker) and >required slow, extensive editing. > I hope to be able to score contemporary music with whatever program i end up with.. i must have the power to design my own marking and symbols.. also need the flexibility in removal of bar lines etc... >>Since purchasing FINALE will also mean purchasing a MAC and laser printer >>etc... (I will have to sell my Atari 4MB system with NOTATOR etc)... > >No! No! NO! There is a new version of FINALE for IBM-clone PC/AT! >I'm having someone review it right now. >Several things to know so far: If your processor time is premium, >you should know that FINALE uses a *lot* of time on screen graphics >instead of skeleton-drawn but well-placed screen symbols. >You need a very fast machine to keep from losing patience, most >recommended is a full-blown 386, not an SX. The SX is visibly >slower. You will also need WINDOWS 3.0. (We're about to try it >with WINDOWS 2.0). > A Tech support person at Coda, "Kurby" ? , tells me that the FINALE version for the 386 is a bit ahead of the update for the Mac.. however, the mac will be updated shortly.. He did, however, suggest that running FINALE on the MAC was a little more graceful than running it on MSDOS. >By comparison, I'm currently running SCORE v. 3.0 on a Packard >Bell 286-AT at 12Mz. SCORE does not waste screen-building time like >FINALE. (The monitor is a Hercules monochrome, BTW) WINDOWS is >not required. I would quickly say that your msavings in hardware >costs (buying a 286 instead of a MAC or a full-blown 386) will >more than offset the several hundred dollars more you'll pay for >SCORE. (And I think that the MAC FINALE costs more than the >IBM-clone FINALE.) I am giving serious thought to a 386 or a 486 ... i don't care at for MSDOS.. but once i've got the program running.. it won't matter too much.. i do have to consider the MSDOS file system.. i think it is a joke.. i much prefer UNIX and MAC.. considering i have over 400+ files already created that have to be converted to another format.. i want a flexiblility in filenaming etc.. MSDOS is a joke. I do like the $99 price tag of Mark Williams' "Coherent" Unix clone.. however! I would never buy MAC's AUX > >The results from SCORE are superior, in my book. FINALE has never >satisfied me either with their slurs or horizontal symbol spacing. Others have also told me that Score is definitely of publish quality and that FINALE is not quite. But i also understand that SCORE is ascii based.. I don't think i would like that.. though i must admit, i have never tried it.. doesn't seem like an intuitive way to deal with music. Music scoring by nature is a very graphic oriented proceedure, i think a program should be bent toward that emphasis. > >As for LEARNING CURVE: SCORE v.3.0 is light-years ahead of >their v.2.xx on that. Their documentation, this time developed by >William Holab (music editor at G. Schirmer, NY) is excellent, >thoroughly reorganized, and written from the professional music >editor's perspective. The improvements in the program (text >handling, pagination, array-handling and total capacity, vastly >extended symbol libraries, more improvements in slurring, >insertion of raw PostScript commands as items, etc.) also have >made what was almost a nightmare with v. 2.x and earlier a genuine >breeze with v.3.0. > > >Be VERY careful. While a program like SCORE will have an >APPARANTLY longer startup to the learning curve, you will probably >find you will save time especially in editing complex >scores and in handling large numbers of pages. > >Even if you DO decide on FINALE, you will probably be better off >on the IBM-clone 386 DOS platform in the long run (especially if >you finally decide you DON'T like FINALE after all). Actually, if i had my druthers, i'd be running a NeXTstation right now.. unfortunately, no GREAT music program exists for it yet.. > >And last, but not least, do you have any idea how long 600 pages >is going to take you? Sounds like a hymnbook to me! If it IS a Not a hymn book. It's " YAMTM " Yet another music teaching method etc.. >hymnbook, then you will surely want to use SCORE, as I've seen to >examples of hymnbooks set with FINALE. You will have severe A student of mine printed out the score of his opera with SCORE.. looked fantastic... he's also done a few of my lesson handouts for me.. love the output.. again, never have used the program... don't know how much the program requires one to do non-musical things to get work done. I think the philosophy behind these programs should be to eliminate the non-musical processes. Environments should be easily customized.. someday, we may see some "learning" built in to the programs... wouldn't be too hard to do, actually... there are all sorts of ways a program can show the user how to be more efficient.. ! > >Cheers, . to you all too! > >--Mark > >======================================== >Mark Gresham ARTSNET Norcross, GA, USA >E-mail: ...gatech!artsnet!mgresham >or: artsnet!mgresham@gatech.edu >======================================== -Kevin ramsiri@blake.acs.washington.edu
eaker@sunbelt.crd.ge.com (Charles E Eaker) (12/18/90)
In article <1076@artsnet.UUCP> mgresham@artsnet.UUCP (Mark Gresham) writes: >I would place both A-R Editions Sun/Unix-based system at the top... What is this system? Who distributes it? How much is it? -- Chuck Eaker / P.O. Box 8, K-1 3C12 / Schenectady, NY 12301 USA eaker@crd.ge.com eaker@crdgw1.UUCP (518) 387-5964
ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec DGBT/DBR) (12/19/90)
I have seen a lot of complaints about copy protection as I browse through various music-related newsgroups. I am somewhat surprised that few know about a product that has been around for some time - namely the Option Board, by Central Point Software in Washington. This is a board that goes inside the computer. With its software, the board bypasses the normal disk controller so that a literal copy can be made of any piece of software. It works extremely well, even on disks with the most vicious protection schemes. Note that it does NOT break copy protection. What it does is let you make a literal copy, i.e. a copy-protected copy. That is all you need for your own protection. No more worries about protection codes being wiped off the hard disk by accidents or crashes. Just reinstall from a "new" copied copy. Cost for board and software is less than $200, as I recall.
asaxon@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Allan Saxon) (01/18/91)
I've received many requests for the FINALE demo and intend to send it to all of you who have asked. I had some problems getting the files to the mainfraim, and was "just a little" involved with the Gulf problem, so there might be a small delay...... I'll try sending it as one file and see if that workes if not well try something else. I'll make a list of all of you who are interested and try to keep the list in mind for the Music Printer Plus demo that I have as well.... (why do I get myself into this?....) talk to you all later
CONS.ELF@AIDA.CSD.UU.SE (Ake Eldberg) (04/25/91)
Hi out there. My office has been looking for a music editor for our IBM 386SX and it looks like Finale is the thing to buy. The price of this software here in Sweden is $1,600 which is *pretty expensive*. I have heard that you can get software considerably cheaper in the USA. Can anyone give me a current price quotation? I would also appreciate it if you know of a retail place to buy it, preferably in the Los Angeles/Orange County area, since I'll probably be going there in august. Someone mentioned CUbase and said that it is better than Finale in some respects. I haven't seen this, and would appreciate a comparative evaluation. What we want is a programme that allows easy editing of music, mostly for 4-voice choirs but also for orchestra. Writing music by playing it on a MIDI sythesizer is a nice feature. But most important is an easy and fast editing system. And it must be laser printer compatible. Myself, I use a Macintosh and recently tried out Encore, which is a similar application. But Finale looks better. Ake Eldberg cons.elf@aida.csd.uu.se
brownd@agnes.acc.stolaf.edu (David H. Brown) (04/25/91)
In article <12680156095017@AIDA.CSD.UU.SE> CONS.ELF@AIDA.CSD.UU.SE (Ake Eldberg) writes: >Hi out there. My office has been looking for a music editor >for our IBM 386SX and it looks like Finale is the thing to >buy. The price of this software here in Sweden is $1,600 >which is *pretty expensive*. I have heard that you can get >software considerably cheaper in the USA. Can anyone give >me a current price quotation? Sure. I've heard $1000. That's pretty expensive for us, too. >I would also appreciate it if you know of a retail place >to buy it, preferably in the Los Angeles/Orange County >area, since I'll probably be going there in august. Well, I'm in Minnesota, but so is Coda. Their telephone number is (612) 854-1288 for customer support. >Myself, I use a Macintosh and recently tried out Encore, >which is a similar application. But Finale looks better. I'd be inclined to agree, having seen only ads for Encore. There's not much you can't do with Finale. And it includes two type-1 PostScript fonts. By the way, if you don't need to do almost anything, you might consider MusicProse from Coda. It's a younger sibling of Finale. It will handle 32 staves, and includes most of the features of Finale-- including the fonts. It's current price is $399 (ac- cording to Coda's newsletter). >Ake Eldberg >cons.elf@aida.csd.uu.se St. Olaf may or may not have nothing | M M | M M M | M M | M M M | M M | to do with the things I talk about. | M M | M M M | M M | M M M | M M | | M M | M M M | M M | M M M | M M | Dave Brown: brownd@agnes.acc.stolaf.edu | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | "I _like_ programming the DX-7!" |_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
spm2d@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Steven P. Miale) (04/26/91)
In article <1991Apr25.154524.1447@news.stolaf.edu> brownd@agnes.acc.stolaf.edu () writes: >In article <12680156095017@AIDA.CSD.UU.SE> CONS.ELF@AIDA.CSD.UU.SE (Ake Eldberg) writes: >>Hi out there. My office has been looking for a music editor >>for our IBM 386SX and it looks like Finale is the thing to >>buy. The price of this software here in Sweden is $1,600 >>which is *pretty expensive*. I have heard that you can get >>software considerably cheaper in the USA. Can anyone give >>me a current price quotation? > >Sure. I've heard $1000. That's pretty expensive for us, too. Carlisle Computer (1-800-333-2566 sales, 1-505-526-7770 for info and tech support) serlls Finale 2.0 for $599. They are located in New Mexico, USA.
tmiller@twisto.compaq.com (Thad Miller) (04/26/91)
In article <1991Apr25.184025.5750@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, spm2d@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Steven P. Miale) writes: > In article <1991Apr25.154524.1447@news.stolaf.edu> brownd@agnes.acc.stolaf.edu () writes: > >In article <12680156095017@AIDA.CSD.UU.SE> CONS.ELF@AIDA.CSD.UU.SE (Ake Eldberg) writes: > >>Hi out there. My office has been looking for a music editor > >>for our IBM 386SX and it looks like Finale is the thing to > >>buy. The price of this software here in Sweden is $1,600 > >>which is *pretty expensive*. I have heard that you can get > >>software considerably cheaper in the USA. Can anyone give > >>me a current price quotation? > > > >Sure. I've heard $1000. That's pretty expensive for us, too. > > Carlisle Computer (1-800-333-2566 sales, 1-505-526-7770 for info and tech > support) serlls Finale 2.0 for $599. They are located in New Mexico, USA. Computers & Music (800) 767-6161 is selling Finale 2.0 for IBM PC for $549. This is the best price we have found, as we are preparing to buy. If anyone knows of an even lower prices, please let me know. thanks, CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC Thad Miller (tmiller@twisto.compaq.com) COMPAQ Computer Corp. CCC CCC The opinions.....BLAH..BLAH....Employer....BLAH....BLAHG....Get Real!!! CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC