Gord_Wait@mindlink.bc.ca (Gord Wait) (06/03/91)
Here it goes again...... The answer to good, smooth, great sounding guitar distortion is TUBES! Throw out those nasty bipolar/jfet/cmos/digital distortion boxes and get yourself something with tubes in it. I won't bother with all the technical reasons as to why... Just practically any hot guitar distortion you may hear in rock music is from tube amps. (Van halen, Joe Satriani, Tom Sholtz (no he didn't use a rockman on the boston records, he hadn't invented them yet..)) For a decent tube sound in a small package check out the Tube Works Inc. Real Tube distortion pedal. I have one of those, and it sounds pretty good. (In comparison to tube amps.. beats the heck out of transistor distortion pedals..) To all those who may (will?) flame, just consider yourselves lucky that your ear doesn't require the sound of tube distortion. If you are happy with transistors, then you don't have to pay the extra money for those nasty fragile tubes. (by the way, this is NOT a hi-fi issue, we are driving these tubes into heavy DISTORTION! And tubes are far from being more NATURAL.. They don't grow in the forest, they are inefficient, so they waste energy, and they probably are real messy to manufacture) :> Borrow somebody's marshall or hiwatt or fender TUBE amp, and check it out. Usually the ones with a master volume are easier to distort: Connect up your keyboard, set the master down low, set the preamp up full, and mess around with it. (Without the master you have to turn the damn thing up full to get distortion, which is a bit loud for most apartments...) Gord Wait -- Gord Wait Member of Technical Staff ASIC Engineering SMOS Systems Vancouver Design Center Gord_Wait@mindlink.UUCP
esuvn@warwick.ac.uk (The Mugwump) (06/04/91)
I have been doing synth/guitar home recording for some time now, and have had
some big troubles getting the electric guitar sounding groovy.
There is a very standard 'smooth' distortion sound around, which as well as
obviously being very distorted, also has quite a 'pure' and 'clean' sound. No
matter how hard I try, I have not been able to get this sound. I have tried
DI'ing a distortion pedal, two distortion pedals, both the previous thru a
combo (miked up), and have still to try compression->distortion->DI or
miked combo. Haven't got a compressor lying about ATM. Has anyone got any
suggestions on these things?
Any ideas would be welcomed,
The Mugwump.
--
T |\ /| __ _ _ __ | Email : Brian Marriage
H | \/ || || || || || | || | | At : esuvn@uk.ac.warwick.cu
E | || || _ | || || ||__| | Address : University of Warwick,
____| ||__||__||_|_||__|| || | Coventry, CV4 7ALpirk@dev0d.mdcbbs.com (06/04/91)
In article <NA3_ZD^@warwick.ac.uk>, esuvn@warwick.ac.uk (The Mugwump) writes: > I have been doing synth/guitar home recording for some time now, and have had > some big troubles getting the electric guitar sounding groovy. I have wondered how the output of a basic guitar sound from a keyboard would behave like when fed into one of the many guitar processors around, ie: Digitech GSP 21 or a Roland GP-8 or GP-16. The Guitarist I play with tells me I will *NEVER* get my keyboards to sound like a "real" guitar. > There is a very standard 'smooth' distortion sound around, which as well as > obviously being very distorted, also has quite a 'pure' and 'clean' sound. No > matter how hard I try, I have not been able to get this sound. I have tried > DI'ing a distortion pedal, two distortion pedals, both the previous thru a > combo (miked up), and have still to try compression->distortion->DI or > miked combo. Haven't got a compressor lying about ATM. Has anyone got any > suggestions on these things? > Any ideas would be welcomed, It would seem to me that what we are looking at is a signal. Be it from a guitar or a keyboard, the signal is what gets processed into the 'groovy' guitar sounds. I should have metioned above that the Audio of the keyboard feed the input of the guitar processor. I guess the missing parts are the mechanics of the guitar, ie: the natural vibrado of the string and how this affects the output of the pickups. My budget at the moment precludes the purchace of a GSP....Anyone else tried this?? Steve -- .Steve Pirk.......midit.....Voice: (714) 952-5516......................... ..McDonnell Douglas M&E..Internet: pirk@dev0d.mdcbbs.com.................. ...5701 Katella Ave..........UUCP: uunet!mdcbbs!dev0d.mdcbbs!pirk......... ....Cypress, CA. 90630........PSI: PSI%31060099980019::DEV0D::PIRK........ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The opinions expressed herein, are probably not those of MDC, and I'm not sure if I can even call them mine......."
boi@richsun.cpg.trs.reuter.com (06/05/91)
The Mugwump (Brian Marriage) wrote: > I have been doing synth/guitar home recording for some time now, and have had > some big troubles getting the electric guitar sounding groovy. > There is a very standard 'smooth' distortion sound around, which as well as > obviously being very distorted, also has quite a 'pure' and 'clean' sound. No > matter how hard I try, I have not been able to get this sound. I have tried > DI'ing a distortion pedal, two distortion pedals, both the previous thru a > combo (miked up), and have still to try compression->distortion->DI or > miked combo. Haven't got a compressor lying about ATM. Has anyone got any > suggestions on these things? > Any ideas would be welcomed, I am not sure from your posting as to whether the guitar sound you are trying to create is from a synthesizer or an actual guitar. If it is from an actual electric guitar, you may try a Sholtz (sp?) 'Rockman' module. Sholtz is the guitarist/songwriter from the U.S. band "Boston", and also is the creator of the Rockman. The sounds created from the Rockman are very smoothly distorted with a compressed sound; very much like the guitar sound on his records, if you have had the opportunity to hear them.
mtm@CAMIS.Stanford.EDU (Mike Macgirvin) (06/05/91)
pirk@dev0d.mdcbbs.com writes: >In article <NA3_ZD^@warwick.ac.uk>, esuvn@warwick.ac.uk (The Mugwump) writes: >> There is a very standard 'smooth' distortion sound around, which as well as >> obviously being very distorted, also has quite a 'pure' and 'clean' sound. >> No >> matter how hard I try, I have not been able to get this sound. I have tried >> DI'ing a distortion pedal, two distortion pedals, both the previous thru a >> combo (miked up), and have still to try compression->distortion->DI or >> miked combo. Haven't got a compressor lying about ATM. Has anyone got any >> suggestions on these things? The sound it seems you are after is the low level harmonic distortion created by *slightly* overdriving an input preamplifier or amplifier. Commercial "distortion" or "fuzz" boxes cannot seem to produce this very subtle effect, instead opting to turn a guitar with complicated harmonics into a square wave device (with essentially infinite, and bland harmonics). I recommend a clean preamp with a gain control, fed into a second preamp or main amp, also with a gain control. You will generally have high gain on the first stage, and back off on the second a bit. Compression tends to help the effect by keeping the signal at the proper level for a longer period of time than usually is the case due to musical dynamics. I manage just fine running a Dod compressor into an Alesis 1622 mixer, with the input trim maxxed out. A high-gain equalizer works equally well, allowing you to tune the brightness a bit. mike
jkiparsk@csli.Stanford.EDU (Jonathan Kiparsky) (06/05/91)
In article <1991Jun4.104901.1@dev0d.mdcbbs.com> pirk@dev0d.mdcbbs.com writes: >The Guitarist I play with tells me >I will *NEVER* get my keyboards to sound like a "real" guitar. You probably won't. Look at it this way: in the course of a given solo, I'll hit the strings with a pick, my fingers and my fingernails, I'll be snapping the strings with my thumb and fingers, I'll be playing the strings at different places, from the bridge up to the fret I'm playing, to bring out different harmonics, and, I'll be changing pickups, adjusting the tone, and changing the phase on my pickups. Each of these adjustments gives a different tone, and that's only the options with the fretting hand- you've still got another hand and a foot to step on things with. I guess this is sort of extreme, but, when you play guitar, you are constantly making small adjustments to the sound, even if it's only things like playing near the bridge to get more treble, or spiking the volume to get more crunch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't do that on a keyboard. > It would seem to me that what we are looking at is a signal. Be it from >a guitar or a keyboard, the signal is what gets processed into the 'groovy' >guitar sounds. Exactly- and the raw signal from a guitar is quite different from that out of a keyboard. I'm not cutting down keyboards, I've been playing them quite a bit lately, but they just won't sound like a real guitar- now matter how much processing you put them through. > I guess the missing parts are the >mechanics of the guitar, ie: the natural vibrado of the string and how this >affects the output of the pickups. Among other things, yes. -jon
swsmith@wrdis01.af.mil (GS-11 SCOTT SMITH) (06/05/91)
> >I am not sure from your posting as to whether the guitar sound you are trying >to create is from a synthesizer or an actual guitar. If it is from an actual >electric guitar, you may try a Sholtz (sp?) 'Rockman' module. Sholtz is the >guitarist/songwriter from the U.S. band "Boston", and also is the creator of the >Rockman. The sounds created from the Rockman are very smoothly distorted with >a compressed sound; very much like the guitar sound on his records, if you have >had the opportunity to hear them. I also was confused by this posting. However, since it was cleared up.... I have also used the Scholtz 'Rockman' and found it have unbelievable sound. The only shortfall that I found was since I have large fingers I had a problem switching the correct switch. Stuck between the horns of a dilemma ??? :-) NO!!!! Tom Scholtz, also of Scholtz R&D, has invented the 'Sustainor'!!!!. The great sound of the Rockman, but rack mounted (half slot) and foot-controlled. FEATURES: - 2 channel switchable (clean & distorted) - vol boost for leads - **** distortion level controlled by vol pot on ax without a change to the volume. (nice feature) - preamp section - noisegate - phase cancelling for mikeing I have been more than satisfied with my Sustainor. Also, it costs <$300 and I built my own custom stompbox to control it. ***** I do not work for Scholtz R&D. I'm just a satisfied customer. Scotty
niklasn@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Niklas Newark) (06/05/91)
I have on occasion managed to get keyboards sounding quite guitarish as far as lead sounds go, sometimes using one metallic zingy synth sound for the actual guitar, and a faily pure sound detuned against itself for a sort of harmonic feedback, all put through a distortion pedal, and a guitar amp. However the only some bits of it really work, and those are the parts when what I played actually sounds as though it was played on a guitar (regardless of the actual sound involved, we are talking notes & playing style here). For an example of someone who plays the keyboards as though they were guitar really well, listen to Howard Jones' "Cross that Line" album. He has got a way of playing the keyboards that sounds like a guitarist, but with an extra something else.... Anyway, basically I think the bottom line is that since the average guitar performance has many different types of noises in (sliding, percussion, harmonics), then the more delicate areas of guitar playing would need fantastic programming to pull off successfully. On the other hand, its best left to guitarists. Sorry about posting to the wrong newsgroup, but its all the fault of that silly Mugwump person who posted here originally! (-: mugwump!) Nik
tmadson@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Todd Madson) (06/05/91)
I've used many different setups for recording guitar sounds onto tape. A good
way is to record the sound of the amp with a Shure SM-57 microphone. This way
you're not only getting the sound of the speaker, but you're also moving air,
which is part of the "magic" incredient in getting massive guitar sounds on
tape.
A lot of the high-tech guitar preamps you see today can simulate the sound of
air, usually by attenuating some high end and doing a few other
psycho-acoustic tricks. I've used ART's SGE with good results.
The best setup that I've found (the one I'm using now) is a Heartfield EX-2
neck through body guitar with EMG pickups (EMG SA for rhythm, EMG-89 for
lead), FAT control, Mesa Boogie Studio Preamp and Alesis Quadraverb. The
Boogie has normal line outs as well as "recording out" jacks. I use the
recording out direct into the quadraverb, and from there into the mixing
board.
This results in fabulous clean tones, crisp yet smooth and unbelievable lead
tones - singing, searing endless sustain and that great, glassy rhythm sound
that you hear on old Hendrix and Stevie Ray and King's X albums. The lead
sound is similar to Holdsworth/Scott Henderson/Al DiMeola kind of sound.
If you can afford it, go for it! I also have used (in the past) a Chandler
Tube Driver in conjunction with an ART SGE and a Digitech GSP5. The GSP5 was
really too noisy to use in the studio, but it had some cool delay effects.
The SGE had a great chorus for a digital unit and in conjunction with the Tube
Driver gave me some great lead tones for the last recording project I did in
the studio.
Then again, high-tech trickery isn't always necessary. I was at a friends
place during a jam session, and one guy had a brand new red strat, a dod
compressor, and Boss distortion (just an overdrive, nothing too monstrous) and
a Yamaha G100-212. Killer tones!
UUCP: {amdahl!bungia, crash}!orbit!pnet51!tmadson
ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!tmadson@nosc.mil
INET: tmadson@pnet51.orb.mn.orgron@vicorp.com (Ron Peterson) (06/06/91)
In article <NA3_ZD^@warwick.ac.uk> esuvn@warwick.ac.uk (The Mugwump) writes: >I have been doing synth/guitar home recording for some time now, and have had >some big troubles getting the electric guitar sounding groovy. >There is a very standard 'smooth' distortion sound around, which as well as >obviously being very distorted, also has quite a 'pure' and 'clean' sound. No >matter how hard I try, I have not been able to get this sound. I have tried >DI'ing a distortion pedal, two distortion pedals, both the previous thru a >combo (miked up), and have still to try compression->distortion->DI or >miked combo. Haven't got a compressor lying about ATM. Has anyone got any >suggestions on these things? The best ways I have found to get a 'clean' distortion sound are: 1) Use a hexaphonic pickup and apply distortion to each pickup individually. This gives a seperate sound for each string making them easier to distinguish. If you're good with electronics you can make one for a reasonable price. If not, then buying six fuzz boxes can get expensive. Pitch tracking guitar synths sometimes have this feature. 2) Boost the treble out of the guitar before sending it to the fuzz. I find that a 'trebley' sound makes it easier to distinguish notes and cords. 3) Lower the amount of distortion or mix in more of the straight guitar. There are also probably distinctive fuzz sounds that can only be created by combining the right equipment. Like, "crank your Marshall to 9.7, then feed it into a Shure mike held 1.3 feet away and mix the resulting sound with about 20% of the direct guitar." I'd be interested in what people have to say about how to create particular guitar effects in general-with devices, synths and computer processing (any realtime DSP guitar effects devices that do new and interesting things out there yet?) ron@vicorp.com or uunet!vicorp!ron
galetti@uservx.afwl.af.mil (06/06/91)
In article <19669@csli.Stanford.EDU>, jkiparsk@csli.Stanford.EDU (Jonathan Kiparsky) writes: > In article <1991Jun4.104901.1@dev0d.mdcbbs.com> pirk@dev0d.mdcbbs.com writes: > >>The Guitarist I play with tells me >>I will *NEVER* get my keyboards to sound like a "real" guitar. > > You probably won't. Look at it this way: in the course of a given solo, I'll > hit the strings with a pick, my fingers and my fingernails, I'll be snapping [Numerous variations in guitar technique deleted.] I have to agree with you. There really is no perfect substitute for a good guitarist. However, I do feel that it is possible to get keyboards to sound close enough for a live performance, and maybe even for some recording projects. >> It would seem to me that what we are looking at is a signal. Be it from >>a guitar or a keyboard, the signal is what gets processed into the 'groovy' >>guitar sounds. >> I guess the missing parts are the >>mechanics of the guitar, ie: the natural vibrado of the string and how this >>affects the output of the pickups. > > Among other things, yes. > -jon One of the most important ingredients, from my experience, is the intonation you are using! For leads, this is not an issue, but when you try to play chords on a keyboard and you run these chords through a distortion device, even the slightest disonance becomes evident. The intonation of a standard keyboard is tempered, and is quite different than on a guitar. You can play all the 5ths and octaves relative to a particular note, but when you try to put in a third, fourth, or whatever, you'll get a nasty sound out of the distortion device. So, the key is to use an alternate tuning that models the intonation of a guitar. You can do this in one of two ways: If you are actually going to play the parts, you will want to tune the entire keyboard about a specific key. Note that only the chords that belong in the key will sound good. For example, if I adjust the intonation to the key of E, and then I try to play an F chord, it won't work. I've used this technique on an E-mu Proteus, and it sounds very good, even to guitarists. The other option is to divide the entire range of the synthesizer into six regions, one for each string. Then, tune each key in each range to correspond to each fret on a guitar string. You might have to sacrifice a few frets to get all six strings to fit into the range of the synthesizer. Note that an arrangement like this would be nearly impossible to play, so this type of tuning lends itself better to sequenced music. Of course, it is also important to have a decent sound going into the distortion device. I use a slight modification of the "Rock Guitaro" sound that comes with the Proteus, and I run this through a Boss DS-1 distortion pedal. Like I said, it sounds very good, but the point is, without the right intonation, it'll just sound like a really badly tuned guitar. -- ___________________________________________________________________________ / Ralph Galetti Internet: galetti@uservx.afwl.af.mil \ | PL/ARCB Interests: computers, music, computers | | Kirtland AFB, NM 87117-6008 and music, golf, sleep. | \______________"I hate cliches--I avoid them like the plague"_______________/
sw@mdavcr.UUCP (Scott Wood) (06/07/91)
Speaking of distortion and ART's SGE, I recently discovered a great (to my ears) distortion setting. I think it's DDL introduces some phase shift, even at 0ms delay. I set up the SGE so that the dry side of the Mix control got the output of the distortion, and the Wet side got the output of the distortion plus a 0ms DDL. With the Mix control at 50/50 there seems to be some great phase cancellation happening that sucks out a lot of the highs. (Actually it sucked out a bit too much, so I used the EQ to boost 10Khz by +6db after the distortion.) A few issues ago, the Computer Music Journal had an article in which the Karplus-Strong algorithm was extended to incorporate distortion of the vibrating string (if memory serves me correctly). Has anyone heard the output of this algorithm? In fact, has anyone run the output of a Karplus-Strong algorithm through a guitar setup? -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Wood | "`We're humanoids and we live on planetoids'.. like could sw@mda.ca | they make it sound *more* dopey?!" - Mister Boffo
daveh@xtenk.asd.sgi.com (David Higgen) (06/08/91)
In article <1991Jun6.142520.23126@uservx.afwl.af.mil>, galetti@uservx.afwl.af.mil writes: > > One of the most important ingredients, from my experience, is the intonation > you are using! For leads, this is not an issue, but when you try to play > chords on a keyboard and you run these chords through a distortion device, > even the slightest disonance becomes evident. The intonation of a standard > keyboard is tempered, and is quite different than on a guitar. Not so. Think about it. The frets on a guitar are straight, remember: ignoring such complications as string tension & end-effects (and assuming the fret spacing is correct), the guitar *is* an equal-temprement instrument. Dave Higgen (daveh@xtenk.asd.sgi.com)
galetti@uservx.afwl.af.mil (06/10/91)
In article <109034@sgi.sgi.com>, daveh@xtenk.asd.sgi.com (David Higgen) writes: > In article <1991Jun6.142520.23126@uservx.afwl.af.mil>, galetti@uservx.afwl.af.mil writes: >> >> One of the most important ingredients, from my experience, is the intonation >> you are using! For leads, this is not an issue, but when you try to play >> chords on a keyboard and you run these chords through a distortion device, >> even the slightest disonance becomes evident. The intonation of a standard >> keyboard is tempered, and is quite different than on a guitar. > > Not so. Think about it. The frets on a guitar are straight, remember: > ignoring such complications as string tension & end-effects (and assuming the > fret spacing is correct), the guitar *is* an equal-temprement instrument. > > > Dave Higgen (daveh@xtenk.asd.sgi.com) Maybe so, but just try it! I'm telling you, it makes a world of difference! -- ___________________________________________________________________________ / Ralph Galetti Internet: galetti@uservx.afwl.af.mil \ | PL/ARCB Interests: computers, music, computers | | Kirtland AFB, NM 87117-6008 and music, golf, sleep. | \______________"I hate cliches--I avoid them like the plague"_______________/
rreid@DPW.COM (r l reid ) (06/10/91)
In article <1746@carto.mdavcr.UUCP> sw@mdavcr.UUCP (Scott Wood) writes: >A few issues ago, the Computer Music Journal had an article in which the >Karplus-Strong algorithm was extended to incorporate distortion of the >vibrating string (if memory serves me correctly). Has anyone heard the >output of this algorithm? In fact, has anyone run the output of a >Karplus-Strong algorithm through a guitar setup? >-- I'm sure you are speaking of Charles Sullivan's extensions. Fantastic stuff, and you don't NEED to run it through a guitar setup, since effects come with the software (I suspect most of us who are crazy enough to go through the pain of software synthesis would consider it to be a "unclean" act to hardware-process the signal anyway :-) I've used portions of that code to implement my software kitharas, and stringed just tonality diamonds. Advantages over the hardware approach? Well, I can retune a kithara of 12 hexachords in milliseconds instead of hours, my glides are precise, I don't seed to keep sanding the soundboard, and I never have to restring. And in the case of the stringed just tonality diamond, I frankly don't know how I could make it exist in phsyical space in any playable way - too many strings occupyining the same space. That's another advantage - my strings can be as long as I need them to be. Disadvantages? For me, the main one was the code was written assuming you would be using octave.pitchclass notation - not the right thing at all when you are working in ratios. But that was an easy enough hack to the code. For others, the lack of fingerboard noise is still bothersome - I happen to like it (my hardware kithara can barely be heard through the noise of the movable bridge), but Brad Garton has used Sullivan's stuff in the aresenal available to his lisp-based Irish string band, with stunning results - but I've heard him long for fingerboard noise. K-S, as implemented in CSound (which was a vary good implementation to my ears) sounds flat and lifeless in comparision to these. To me, Sullivan is a Computer Music Hero. R Reid rreid@dpw.com rlr@woof.columbia.edu
daveh@xtenk.asd.sgi.com (David Higgen) (06/12/91)
In article <1991Jun10.091019.23198@uservx.afwl.af.mil>, galetti@uservx.afwl.af.mil writes: > >> > >> The intonation of a standard > >> keyboard is tempered, and is quite different than on a guitar. > > > > Not so. Think about it. The frets on a guitar are straight, remember: > > ignoring such complications as string tension & end-effects (and assuming the > > fret spacing is correct), the guitar *is* an equal-temprement instrument. > > Maybe so, but just try it! I'm telling you, it makes a world of difference! Oh sure, I wasn't arguing the aural effect point. I'm sure a chord played though any distorion device will sound much sweeter if it's in just rather than equal temprement. I'm just picking the technical tuning nit that you are not thereby emulating a guitar! Interesting question is, how *does* a guitar, given that it's essentially an equal temprement instrument, get to sound good through certain types of distortion processing? (Comparing it with a keyboard patch which doesn't, that is?) Different harmonic content of the original signals? I suppose if we fully understood this, we'd finally *really* be able to replace tubes... 8-) Dave Higgen (daveh@xtenk.asd.sgi.com)
ogata@leviathan.cs.umd.edu (Jefferson Ogata) (06/12/91)
In article <1991Jun10.091019.23198@uservx.afwl.af.mil>, galetti@uservx.afwl.af.mil writes: |> In article <109034@sgi.sgi.com>, daveh@xtenk.asd.sgi.com (David Higgen) writes: |> > In article <1991Jun6.142520.23126@uservx.afwl.af.mil>, galetti@uservx.afwl.af.mil writes: |> >> |> >> One of the most important ingredients, from my experience, is the |> >> intonation |> >> you are using! For leads, this is not an issue, but when you try to play |> >> chords on a keyboard and you run these chords through a distortion device, |> >> even the slightest disonance becomes evident. The intonation of a |> >> standard |> >> keyboard is tempered, and is quite different than on a guitar. |> > |> > Not so. Think about it. The frets on a guitar are straight, remember: |> > ignoring such complications as string tension & end-effects (and assuming |> > the |> > fret spacing is correct), the guitar *is* an equal-temprement instrument. |> |> Maybe so, but just try it! I'm telling you, it makes a world of difference! Also, you can tune many synths to a Just intonation if this becomes an issue. Or if you have polyphonic aftertouch you can learn how to fix it with your fingertips. -- Jefferson Ogata University of Maryland Computer Science Department "Animals without backbones hid from each other or fell down. Clamasaurs and oysterettes appeared as appetizers. Then came the sponges, which sucked up about ten percent of all life."
dpm@hickory07.cray.com (Donald P. Maghrak) (06/13/91)
In article <109722@sgi.sgi.com> daveh@xtenk.asd.sgi.com (David Higgen) writes: >In article <1991Jun10.091019.23198@uservx.afwl.af.mil>, galetti@uservx.afwl.af.mil writes: >> >> >> >> The intonation of a standard >> >> keyboard is tempered, and is quite different than on a guitar. >> > >> > Not so. Think about it. The frets on a guitar are straight, remember: >> > ignoring such complications as string tension & end-effects (and assuming the >> > fret spacing is correct), the guitar *is* an equal-temprement instrument. The frets spacing on the guitar is based on the same 12th root of two relationship as the equal-tempered scale so it qualifies as an equal-temperment instrument. Trouble is that when tuning the guitar, one can tune the open strings to where there is no beating between e.g. low E and A. (by listening to the interval) This is not the same as using the 5th fret on low E to tune the equal-tempered A. Guitars can be quite funky to tune sometimes IMHO. > >Interesting question is, how *does* a guitar, given that it's essentially >an equal temprement instrument, get to sound good through certain types >of distortion processing? (Comparing it with a keyboard patch which >doesn't, that is?) Different harmonic content of the original signals? > If you magnify to a great degree the signal from an undistorted guitar and a sample of the same you would see that the sample (or any digital waveform) already has subtle distortion when compared to a real physical sound. This could be one reason you hear a difference. Of course I'm assuming the keyboard patch is not from an analog-synth :-). > >I suppose if we fully understood this, we'd finally *really* be able >to replace tubes... 8-) > I remember reading in a very old issue of Guitar Player that part of the sweetness of tube distortion comes from those huge matching transformers between the output of the tubes and the speakers. The distorted signal from the tube is fed to the transformer which passes mostly the odd harmonics. The odd harmonics are pretty musical 3rd 5th 7th 9th .... Anyways, the article was very good. sorry I don't have the issue #. > Don Maghrak dpm@cray.com