[comp.protocols.tcp-ip.domains] X.25 and ISDN RRs for DNS

Ariel@RELAY.PRIME.COM (Robert Ullmann) (08/09/90)

Hi,

[this message didn't seem to make it to the TCP-ISDN list,
 and wasn't sent to NameDroppers, so I am quoting the whole
 thing, instead of the usual excerpts]

> Date: Wed, 08 Aug 90 14:38:22 +1000
> From: Bob <smart@mel.dit.csiro.au>

> I think the general idea of the proposed draft RFC is excellent.
> I would like to quibble at some details.

> 1) The RT records are to be used by the network layer. Like
> all network activity this should work without reference to
> domain names. It seems more correct to make this an
> extension of the in-addr.arpa domain

>  17.128.in-addr.arpa.     IN     RT     10  sh.prime.com.

> is a route to a whole class B network (128.17). Alternatively

>  17.18.19.20.in-addr.arpa. IN     RT     30  relay.prime.com.

> is a route to a specific host.

I did think about this. In my view, the domain system (at least
in the Internet class) is all about binding FQDNs to attributes.
The "pointer" zones are only a particular inverted index to the
domain records.

If the IP address exists, there should be a PTR record; if it
exists, it should point to a valid FQDN, and (all) the other
RRs can be placed there.

I'm not terribly worried about the layer mixing: either way,
we are already assuming that the IP (internetwork-layer) router is
making a DNS (application-layer) request.

Also: for a multi-homed host, there is no particular association
between its IP addresses and the X25 or ISDN address(es): it
is perfectly all right to call it with the "off-side" IP address.

The other reason for binding name->(X.25/ISDN) is for protocols
not involving IP at all; both SMTP and TP/IX are the particular
examples I am interested in.

> 2) The X25 and ISDN types should be network types parallel to
> IN not parts of the IN network info. E.g.

>   Relay.prime.com.     X25     A     311061700956
>                        ISDN    A     150887929603217 003

In my view: IN is not a "network type". It is an Object Class, in
this case the class of all objects known as "Internet Hosts".

The information clearly belongs to the Internet class.

> Records of the form

>   31106700956.x25-addr.arpa.     IN     X25     x.y.edu

> should mean that host x.y.edu will accept X25-over-IP calls
> for X.25 address 31106700956 using some to-be-defined protocol
> for running X.25 over IP. I would point out that CISCO have
> such a protocol and might release it (my guess: they would
> release it if there was a threat of some other protocol
> becoming a standard).

Interesting. Problem: either you have a very large, very flat,
and *very* hard to administer zone; or you have to figure out
how to delegate parts of the X.121 address-space. Any ideas?

> Similarly for IN ISDN. Yes ISDN over IP could be used to provide
> telephone/fax/whatever connectivity to workstations with IP
> connectivity. It may not be as clearly desirable as IP over ISDN
> but it is possible and whatever the theoretical difficulties I
> suspect it would work fine in practice in many situations.

Seems to me any given protocol (voice/fax/whatever) would best be
run on TCP (or ISO TPn, or TP/IX-TP), then you could run (e.g.)
voice/TCP/IP/ISDN everywhere instead of voice/ISDN. <grin>

> 3) It is possible to imagine access to X25 and ISDN A records from
> boxes which don't run IP. So it would be nice to define a protocol
> for accessing the DNS over raw X.25 and raw ISDN networks. Since
> the DNS can be accessed by UDP and TCP this shouldn't be hard.

Quite so. Something I am prototyping. Basically, you call with
PRID C0F66035 and use the TCP DNS encapsulation (16-bit count
precedes each DNS packet, DNS packets do not correspond necessarily
to X.25 L3 M-data sequences).

On ISDN, you use X.25 bearer capability, and user-user setup element
selecting X.244 (X.25 PRID/UDATA), in turn selecting C0F66035. (thus
calls gated ISDN->PSDN or vice versa work properly) All of which might
be the subject of a future RFC.

This parallels the method of doing IP/ISDN on the switched service with
user-user selecting X.244 PRID = CC, which also (theoretically) works
across ISDN/PSDN gates.

> Bob Smart <smart@mel.dit.csiro.au>

Robert Ullmann
Prime Computer