maoursler@miavx0.ham.muohio.edu (07/19/90)
Hullo, Has anyone out there experienced problems with a Zenith 33 MHz 386 system. Specifically, we cannot run protected mode applications with reliability. We installed Windows 3.0 on this system but are limited to operating in real mode. Why? Because the other modes crash without fail. Invariably, when we try to run applications it dies. The machine has 5 MB of memory. This is the same problem that we had when we tried to run OS/2. System would lock. VM386 also locks up on this computer. Why? Is ours just a bummer? In addition, when these lock ups occur, upon rebooting the machine we get an error that the keyboard is not connected. It is! We are forced to unplug it, and plug it back in. Kind of a pain, when the system is on a floor stand 5 feet away. Does anyone know what causes this? Does anyone have ANY info at all on Zenith 386 systems. We are fed up with this $5000 boat anchor. Thanks in advance. responses to this group or email me at maoursler@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu or maoursler@miavx2.bitnet - Miles -
ttak@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Timothy Takahashi) (07/23/90)
In article <169.26a5a941@miavx0.ham.muohio.edu> maoursler@miavx0.ham.muohio.edu writes: > Has anyone out there experienced problems with a Zenith > 33 MHz 386 system. Specifically, we cannot run protected > mode applications with reliability. It wouldn't suprise me in the least. Our Zenith Z-386 16mhz machine was also best descibed as a boat anchor. However, here are some points...... Is your VGA card (or if its a 31-khz Video Adaptor, its really an EGA card) setup properly. All emulation and automatic mode-switching functions should be turned OFF. > We installed Windows 3.0 on this system but are limited to > operating in real mode. Why? Because the other modes > crash without fail. Invariably, when we try to run > applications it dies. The machIne has 5 MB of memory. Again, check out the Video Board (it may have to be yanked and put into the dumpster!) Also, did you set up Windows 3.0 for the ZENITH (it is NOT an MSDOS/PCDOS compatible machine!)? As an aside, we never did get Windows 2.11 functioning well on the Zentih (both /386 v. 2.11 and /286 v. 2.11) > This is the same problem that we had when we tried to run OS/2. > System would lock. VM386 also locks up on this computer. > Why? Is ours just a bummer? In addition, when these lock ups > occur, upon rebooting the machine we get an error that the > keyboard is not connected. It is! We are forced to unplug it, > and plug it back in. Kind of a pain, when the system is on a floor > stand 5 feet away. Does anyone know what causes this? I've had it crash so bad that the configuaration info is destroyed. Again, look for subtle problems - some add on hardware may be generating interrupts at the wrong moment (video board is a prime candidate). Also, if its a "31-khz" adaptor - it is an EGA (w/ crash the system if you try to use it as a real VGA) > Does anyone have ANY info at all on Zenith 386 systems. We are > fed up with this $5000 boat anchor. Hope this helps.... tim
djo7613@hardy.u.washington.edu (Dick O'Connor) (07/23/90)
In article <8532@ur-cc.UUCP> ttak@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Timothy Takahashi) writes: >In article <169.26a5a941@miavx0.ham.muohio.edu> maoursler@miavx0.ham.muohio.edu writes: >> Has anyone out there experienced problems with a Zenith >> 33 MHz 386 system. Specifically, we cannot run protected >> mode applications with reliability. > >It wouldn't suprise me in the least. Our Zenith Z-386 16mhz machine was also >best descibed as a boat anchor. However, here are some points...... > Now, now, "boat anchors" is a bit harsh. Let me add a clarification or two. The first thing I'd ask is "What is your dealer doing about this?" :) >Is your VGA card (or if its a 31-khz Video Adaptor, its really an EGA card) Buzz! Urban legend. The very first, original "VGA" cards installed in Zenith machines were model number Z-449, and they were BIOS-compatible VGA cards that weren't register (hardware) compatible. Zenith stopped calling them VGA and went to "extended EGA" after awhile, even in the docs. There was even a trade-in program for the replacement, TRUE VGA card, the Z-549 (and its close cousin, the Heath HB-550), but that program may have been limited to University campuses. I've been running Z549 cards for two years now with no compatibility or other problems. I find it hard to believe there are any Z-449 cards in a 33 MHz Zenith 386. It just doesn't sound right. >> We installed Windows 3.0 on this system but are limited to >> operating in real mode. Why? Because the other modes >> crash without fail. Invariably, when we try to run >> applications it dies. The machIne has 5 MB of memory. > >dumpster!) Also, did you set up Windows 3.0 for the ZENITH (it is NOT an > To this, let me add; Did you install Zenith's version of Windows 3? It's been available now for some time (got my upgrade cards in the mail two weeks ago), and it's certainly possible that Zenith foresaw and programmed around some of the incompatibilities you're experiencing. >> This is the same problem that we had when we tried to run OS/2. >> System would lock. VM386 also locks up on this computer. Hopefully you can find other net.users who can answer these. When I want to do more than DOS allows, I use Unix! :) :) :) "Moby" Dick O'Connor djo7613@u.washington.edu Washington Department of Fisheries *I brake for salmonids* "Moby" Dick O'Connor djo7613@u.washington.edu Washington Department of Fisheries *I brake for salmonids*
price@vlsiws.unl.edu (Chad Price) (07/24/90)
In <5388@milton.u.washington.edu> djo7613@hardy.u.washington.edu (Dick O'Connor) writes: [much deleted] >>Is your VGA card (or if its a 31-khz Video Adaptor, its really an EGA card) >Buzz! Urban legend. The very first, original "VGA" cards installed in >Zenith machines were model number Z-449, and they were BIOS-compatible VGA >cards that weren't register (hardware) compatible. Zenith stopped calling >them VGA and went to "extended EGA" after awhile, even in the docs. There >was even > a trade-in program Thats news to me. I never received any notice & certainly registered and would have upgraded given the chance. Do you have the address & or phone number for the upgrade ?? I'd like to try. (PS I got my Zenith through Univ Colo @ Denver) >for the replacement, TRUE VGA card, the Z-549 >(and its close cousin, the Heath HB-550), but that program may have been >limited to University campuses. I've been running Z549 cards for two years . . >> >To this, let me add; Did you install Zenith's version of Windows 3? It's >been available now for some time (got my upgrade cards in the mail two >weeks ago), Again - please send / post address. I never received any upgrade info from them. Chad Price price@fergvax.unl.edu
ttak@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Timothy Takahashi) (07/24/90)
In article <price.648774803@vlsiws> price@vlsiws.unl.edu (Chad Price) writes: >In <5388@milton.u.washington.edu> djo7613@hardy.u.washington.edu (Dick O'Connor) writes: > >[much deleted] >>>Is your VGA card (or if its a 31-khz Video Adaptor, its really an EGA card) > >>Buzz! Urban legend. The very first, original "VGA" cards installed in >>Zenith machines were model number Z-449, and they were BIOS-compatible VGA >>cards that weren't register (hardware) compatible. Zenith stopped calling >>them VGA and went to "extended EGA" after awhile, even in the docs. There >>was even >> a trade-in program > >Thats news to me. I never received any notice & certainly registered and >would have upgraded given the chance. > >Do you have the address & or phone number for the upgrade ?? I'd like to >try. (PS I got my Zenith through Univ Colo @ Denver) > >>for the replacement, TRUE VGA card, the Z-549 >>(and its close cousin, the Heath HB-550), but that program may have been >>limited to University campuses. I've been running Z549 cards for two years Interesting.... the particular Zenith Z-386 was purchased through Columbia University in the summer of 1988. It arrived with only 1 Mb of ram (the system was ordered with a base 2Mb), the second Mb arrived six months later. At this point in time, we could finally run Windows/386 v. 2.0 (which was shipped with the machine and was now obsolete! v 2.1 released in October of 1988). Or, should I say, we could install Windows/386 v. 2.0. It would not run until we upgraded (at a cost of $50 or $100) to Zenith MSDOS 3.3 plus - which caused all sorts of newfound incompatibilities. Finally, (Jan. 89) we installed IBM PC-DOS 3.3 ($100) and purchased the current version of Windows/386 v. 2.1 ($195). At this point in time we discovered that the 31-khz video adaptor was NOT vga compatible. The local dealer was useless, the factory direct people weren't much better. Giving up on Windows/386 v.2.1, we tried installing Windows/286 v. 2.11 this could at least run at 640x480 resolution BUT never properly switched tasks (to standard applications - the [alt][tab], [alt][esc] sequence NEVER worked). Come, December 1989 the video board was scrapped - a Video 7 1024i replaced it (true VGA), Windows/286 still didn't task switch... March of 1990, the machine was replaced with a Swan 386sx clone from Tussey Computer Products, the 1024i video board was retained. All compatibility problems miraculously disappeared ! The Zenith *WAS* a boat anchor. tim
djo7613@hardy.u.washington.edu (Dick O'Connor) (07/24/90)
In article <price.648774803@vlsiws> price@vlsiws.unl.edu (Chad Price) writes: >(concerning the Z449 trade-in program)... >Thats news to me. I never received any notice & certainly registered and >would have upgraded given the chance. > >Do you have the address & or phone number for the upgrade ?? I'd like to >try. (PS I got my Zenith through Univ Colo @ Denver) Sorry, I don't. We were having trouble with a Z248/12 component, and during the testing phase, the Heath tech suggested swapping the Z449 for a Z549. We said "What Z549?" Our sales rep (in Seattle) mentioned some sort of swap program, involving the U of Wash, but it wasn't clear whether it was part of a nationwide program or a locally-engineered deal. Since he's a great sales rep, he let us upgrade for about $150 each, which we took him up on. This was nearly two years ago. I have no idea if it was an authorized deal or not, and since it was a long time back, it's probably expired by now (if it ever *was* an authorized deal). (Then I butt in again... :) >>To this, let me add; Did you install Zenith's version of Windows 3? It's >>been available now for some time (got my upgrade cards in the mail two >>weeks ago), > >Again - please send / post address. I never received any upgrade info >from them. The mailing that came to both my work and home address consisted of a form that requested your Z-machine model number and serial number, along with $49. Since purt near every Zenith hard disk machine for a few years there had Windows included, everyone who registered their copy should have gotten this mailing, according to ZDS. If not, dig out your old registration card and send it in. The offer is good till December 31, 1990. The address we sent in the $$ and form to was: Zenith Data Systems Attn: Cash Control P.O. Box 1000 St. Joseph, MI 49085-9983 The come-on letter was signed by Art Lambert, Vice President of Sales and Marketing. There's a 1-800-523-9393 number listed, but it looks like its a sales info line only. Best part about the mailing was the info sheet entitled HOW TO DETERMINE IF YOUR PC IS CAPABLE OF RUNNING WINDOWS VERSION 3.0. I've read all the usual trade press stuff, but this was the first guide that made it very clear to 286 owners (like me) who want to run in standard mode that YOU NEED MORE THAN 1 MB OF RAM. Basically, you need 256K of extended memory and (quoting now) "the expanded memory available above the 640K will NOT suffice." I've already ordered more SIMMs! > >Chad Price >price@fergvax.unl.edu "Moby" Dick O'Connor djo7613@u.washington.edu Washington Department of Fisheries *I brake for salmonids*
kent@wasp.ufnet.ufl.edu (Kent Phelps) (07/24/90)
Well - I'm not one to say that ZDS doesn't have more than their fair share
of faults but the Z-386/33 isn't one of them.
I'm not sure what other people's problems have been but -
The Z-386/33 IS a MS-DOS/PC-DOS compatable machine, contrary to what
some other folks have posted.
I am currently typing this posting in a Window running Telnet on my
Z-386/33 ( under Windows 3.0 - ZDS version ). Before I installed Windows
3.0 I had run Windows 2.11 with no difficulty though I did not use it
extensively. I don't know why other folks are having so many problems
with Windows ( other than the bugs that all other folks are suffering)
on ZDS machines.
There are two true VGA boards that ZDS supplies with their machines now.
A regular 256k 16 bit VGA board and a "High Performance" VGA card w/512k.
I have run both in my 33 with the only problem being that when I had
the Hi-Perf board the screen kept going to monochrome. This problem
was traced to the motherboard. Since the motherboard was replaced there
have been no problems. Even when the screen went monochrome the unit
ran fine, just everything was in monochrome.
Don't toss those Z-386's overboard yet!
--
Kent Phelps | Internet: kent@sun.ufnet.ufl.edu
University of Florida | kent@digital.ufl.edu
Digital Design Facility | Phone:904-392-2464
***** Just say Yo ! *****bsylvester@miavx0.ham.muohio.edu (07/26/90)
In article <23946@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU>, kent@wasp.ufnet.ufl.edu (Kent Phelps) writes: > > The Z-386/33 IS a MS-DOS/PC-DOS compatable machine, contrary to what > some other folks have posted. > The Windows set up program (Microsoft's version, not Zenith's) has an option for Zenith 386's, it changes the system.ini file to exclude the video BIOS shadowing area. The original posting was in reference to my machine, although I wasn't the author. Just for a little claification, one of the first things I did when I bought the machine was chuck Zenith's video board (A 549 if I remember correctly), currently a Video 7 FastWrite is installed. Also just for giggles, we removed ALL add-in boards so there wouldn't be any conflicts for memory, ports or irq's. The machine still would crash, usually when launching a program. I can mouse around and pull down windows all I want, but start a program - forget it. It exhibits this problem with Windows-386, OS/2 V1.1 (Zenith), OS/2 V1.0 (Zenith), and Windows 3.0. VM-386 does something different, the video just goes wack-o. Prob. a problem with VM-386 and the video card, I don't know. > There are two true VGA boards that ZDS supplies with their machines now. > A regular 256k 16 bit VGA board and a "High Performance" VGA card w/512k. > I have run both in my 33 with the only problem being that when I had > the Hi-Perf board the screen kept going to monochrome. This problem > was traced to the motherboard. Since the motherboard was replaced there > have been no problems. Even when the screen went monochrome the unit > ran fine, just everything was in monochrome. > Mine does this too, but with the Video 7 card. Is this a "known problem" or is my Zenith dealer (HA!) going to give me a hard time about replacing it. > Don't toss those Z-386's overboard yet! Heave HO! Thanks to all who replied, I'm still searching for the Truth. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bill Sylvester, Miami University bsylvester@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu Insert cute quote here. bsylvester@miavx2.bitnet ------------------------------------------------------------------------
pitonyak@galley.cis.ohio-state.edu (Andrew Pitonyak) (07/26/90)
A Boat Anchor, Hmmmmm. Remember a few things, Microsoft says that their windows software will not run on a Zenith 386. One more warning to those of you thinking of upgrading your RAM in your 386 machines at 25 and 33 Mhz. They apparantly don't take standard simms. I just ordered four meg at $149 a meg. Any one know what differs between the standard SIMMs and the Zenith SIMMs? Andy
boylanr@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (ross boylan) (07/26/90)
I have a 386/16Mhz Zenith. It has lots of problems when using the 386 features, because Zenith uses the address space between 640K and 1M in a nonstandard way (e.g., the frame buffer is at an unusual location). When I first tried desqview, I had problems with it hanging because it was messing with the frame buffer (does the memory mapping), which it mistakenly thought was in "free" space. Our Zenith rep says same issues apply with Windows 3.0, and probably Unix: it's safest to get stuff through Zenith. Once things are tweaked, they work OK. I would advise anyone not to buy a Zenith. Their hardware is unreliable, and they engage in marketing con jobs like selling VGA systems which aren't really VGA (as others have mentioned). On the other hand, once the hardware gets fixed and the software gets tweaked, they are more useful than boat anchors!
wargopl@image.soe.clarkson.edu (Peter L. Wargo) (07/28/90)
From article <8532@ur-cc.UUCP>, by ttak@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Timothy Takahashi): > > Again, check out the Video Board (it may have to be yanked and put into the > dumpster!) Also, did you set up Windows 3.0 for the ZENITH (it is NOT an > MSDOS/PCDOS compatible machine!)? As an aside, we never did get Windows 2.11 > functioning well on the Zentih (both /386 v. 2.11 and /286 v. 2.11) Hmmm... I had a "generic" copy of 2.11 running on my Z248 - I had *no* problems, and now I have switched to windows 3.0, again, with no problems. And, believe me, my 248 is old enough to be called a "relic". I must just be lucky. I never, ever had a compatibility problem with my Zenith. Also, their 3.3+ OEM DOS is the best I've ever used... Pete -- Peter L. Wargo - wargopl@sun.soe.clarkson.edu, amoung others... - Host of "Up all Night with Pete Wargo" on 96.7 WVNC "Radio is the paint, the canvas is your mind."