dave@sdeggo.UUCP (David L. Smith) (03/06/88)
There's a lot of problems which have been reported that could have been fixed fairly easily by someone with access to the source, and there is certainly enough expertise amongst the people on the net to fix these things properly. Unfortunately, a source license is well beyond the financial means of most of us. I propose that a privately held corporation could be formed, with the purpose of purchasing a Microport source license and producing useful enhancements to the system for internal usage and to be sold back to Microport. A person would buy into the company for a fee, become an employee at the nominal rate of $1/year, and receive access to the company's sources. Naturally, they would have to have Microport binaries licenses beforehand and sign a non-disclosure agreement. Now for the tough question: Is this feasible and legal? I believe that a source license applies to the company as a whole, not just a single machine, so I don't see a problem there. As to whether or not Microport/AT&T would sell to such a corporation, that's another question. It seems as if it would be beneficial to Microport, since it would in all likelihood generate a large number of enhancements and fixes to their current system. Is anybody interested in such a deal? I believe that the source license for a business costs around $20,000. With 100 people forming the corporation, a share would cost around $200. There will also be other overhead associated with the company, in terms of keeping records, start-up legal fees and duplicating disks (Oh, yes, and salaries also :-) ). So, this would require a share price of around $220 - $250. Am I volunteering to head this thing up? Yes, if there's enough interest, and no legal battles to be fought. (Note: I'm proposing this for the Sys V/AT product. I don't have a '386, but a parallel company could be set up for '386 owners.) -- David L. Smith {sdcsvax!jack,ihnp4!jack, hp-sdd!crash, pyramid, uport}!sdeggo!dave sdeggo!dave@amos.ling.edu Sinners can repent, but stupid is forever.
mjy@sdti.UUCP (Michael J. Young) (03/07/88)
In article <176@sdeggo.UUCP> dave@sdeggo.UUCP (David L. Smith) writes: >[proposal to form a private company with access to Microport sources] >Now for the tough question: Is this feasible and legal? I believe that a >source license applies to the company as a whole, not just a single machine, >so I don't see a problem there. When we've gotten licenses from AT&T, they are for a specific machine - you even have to tell them what the serial number of the machine is. Actually, if you are that interested in helping Microport fix a bug in their product, it is my understanding that you can negotiate with them (Microport) to be placed under their own source license as a consultant or contractor. AT&T does make allowances for things like this. I bet Microport would be willing to accept some free help from responsible users. -- Mike Young - Software Development Technologies, Inc., Sudbury MA 01776 UUCP : {decvax,harvard,linus,mit-eddie}!necntc!necis!mrst!sdti!mjy Internet : mjy%sdti.uucp@harvard.harvard.edu Tel: +1 617 443 5779
paddock@mybest.UUCP (Steve Paddock) (03/09/88)
About the proposal to start a corporation to buy and maintain uPort sources - half seriously, wouldn't it be cheaper (and more fun) to start a University (and get the source for $200) and make us all perfessors? :-) Steve -- Steve Paddock (uunet!bigtex!mybest!paddock) 4015 Burnet Road, Austin, Texas 78756
dave@sdeggo.UUCP (David L. Smith) (03/10/88)
In article <215@sdti.UUCP>, mjy@sdti.UUCP (Michael J. Young) writes: > In article <176@sdeggo.UUCP> dave@sdeggo.UUCP (David L. Smith) writes: > >[proposal to form a private company with access to Microport sources] > > >Now for the tough question: Is this feasible and legal? I believe that a > >source license applies to the company as a whole, not just a single machine, > >so I don't see a problem there. > > When we've gotten licenses from AT&T, they are for a specific machine - you > even have to tell them what the serial number of the machine is. Well, if Microport can send sources out to consultants, so could we. Another proposal that has been made is to have the corporation maintain an AT or two that the employees could dial-in to to access the sources. After all, who wants to keep 20M or so of sources on-line? > Actually, if you are that interested in helping Microport fix a bug in > their product, it is my understanding that you can negotiate with them > (Microport) to be placed under their own source license as a consultant > or contractor. AT&T does make allowances for things like this. I bet > Microport would be willing to accept some free help from responsible > users. Microport has expressed a willingness to do this, but I see no reason why I should give my work to them for free so that they may sell it to other users as an "upgrade." If Microport were willing to distribute these fixes through their bulletin board free to all registered users (not just those with a current support contract) I would be more willing. I have been in touch with one person who has been attempting for some time to get access to the driver sources, and has been promised by Microport that he will receive them, however, nothing has come of this after several months. I don't want to blast Microport for this, as it is certainly not part of their duty to give these sources out. However, it would make for much more timely fixes if the sources were more readily available. -- David L. Smith {sdcsvax!jack,ihnp4!jack, hp-sdd!crash, pyramid, uport}!sdeggo!dave sdeggo!dave@amos.ling.edu Sinners can repent, but stupid is forever.
root@uwspan.UUCP (John Plocher) (03/11/88)
+---- dave@sdeggo.UUCP (David L. Smith) writes in <178@sdeggo.UUCP> ---- | In article <215@sdti.UUCP>, mjy@sdti.UUCP (Michael J. Young) writes: | > In article <176@sdeggo.UUCP> dave@sdeggo.UUCP (David L. Smith) writes: | > >[proposal to form a private company with access to Microport sources] | | Microport has expressed a willingness to do this, but I see no reason why | I should give my work to them for free so that they may sell it to other | users as an "upgrade." +---- Except that you can not distribute ATT derived code to ANYONE who has not bought a Unix License from ***YOU***. Just because a person has *a* unix license from Microport it does NOT mean that she automatically has one from everyone! Think of it as a license which allows Microport to supply that particular customer with ATT derived code. If you don't like the word "free", call them up and offer your services at whatever cost you feel you can get away with. Just don't feel too bad when they hang up on you :-) Microport is working on quite a few things - HDB is almost ready to completely replace the "old" uucp as the standard; the 386 product may soon have SCSI/ESDI/RLL disk support; the 286 product is getting it's hard disk driver "tuned up" - they may even port the 386 driver back to the 286... ksh is now included in the programmers development kit - why there, I don't know :-( ... Have fun, keep trying, etc, but don't give up on them - they *are* really trying... -John -- Comp.Unix.Microport is now unmoderated! Use at your own risk :-)
syd@dsinc.UUCP (Syd Weinstein) (03/12/88)
In article <178@sdeggo.UUCP> dave@sdeggo.UUCP (David L. Smith) writes: :In article <215@sdti.UUCP>, mjy@sdti.UUCP (Michael J. Young) writes: :> In article <176@sdeggo.UUCP> dave@sdeggo.UUCP (David L. Smith) writes: :> >[proposal to form a private company with access to Microport sources] :> :> >Now for the tough question: Is this feasible and legal? I believe that a :> >source license applies to the company as a whole, not just a single machine, :> >so I don't see a problem there. :> :> When we've gotten licenses from AT&T, they are for a specific machine - you :> even have to tell them what the serial number of the machine is. : :Well, if Microport can send sources out to consultants, so could we. Another :proposal that has been made is to have the corporation maintain an AT or :two that the employees could dial-in to to access the sources. After all, :who wants to keep 20M or so of sources on-line? : I wish it was so easy. As a holder of one of those AT&T licenses let me tell you it cost $$$$ per copy. They don't let you make copies for consultants for free. Plus, those copies must be preceeded by all the normal non disclosure agreements and another agreement to return all manuals and code at the end of the project. AT&T is told where the copy is and what machine type it is being put on. You would have to really provide a service for Microport before it would be worth it to have a whole bunch of people with the code. As to dialing in for access. Microport has to make sure that trade secrets are not released (AT&T's secrets). A lot of unknown dialin people can lead their lawyers into a tail spin. As for forming your own company, well, first there is the AT&T source license fee, then I am sure Microport has a fee for their version of the source. Then there is all the non disclosure agreements and work for hire agreements. Its not a minor cost. -- ===================================================================== Sydney S. Weinstein, CDP, CCP Datacomp Systems, Inc. Voice: (215) 947-9900 {allegra,bellcore,bpa,vu-vlsi}!dsinc!syd FAX: (215) 938-0235