wnp@dcs.UUCP (Wolf N. Paul) (07/22/88)
In article <2321@sugar.uu.net> karl@sugar.uu.net (Karl Lehenbauer) writes: >I've been running Bell Tech Unix System V/386 for the last couple of weeks, >and I thought I'd share with the net my impressions, both good and bad. > >... Nroff/troff are not included, because, according >to BT, they haven't gone through the validation suite and aren't up to the >quality of everything else, but they'll sell it to you, so it's sort of still >unbundled. Now, THAT is no longer ambiguous, if this is true, then their ad is purposely misleading the consumer. The ad states "The price includes ... and all other UNIX utilities, files and programs, ...", but that seems to be OUTRIGHT UNTRUE. What sort of reasoning is this, "It hasn't passed the tests so we'll charge you extra for it"? I get to be less and less impressed with the honesty of whoever makes marketing decisions at Bell Technologies. -- Wolf N. Paul * 3387 Sam Rayburn Run * Carrollton TX 75007 * (214) 306-9101 UUCP: killer!dcs!wnp ESL: 62832882 DOMAIN: wnp@dcs.UUCP TLX: 910-380-0585 EES PLANO UD
jimi@h-three.UUCP (jimi) (07/26/88)
In article <148@dcs.UUCP>, wnp@dcs.UUCP (Wolf N. Paul) writes: > In article <2321@sugar.uu.net> karl@sugar.uu.net (Karl Lehenbauer) writes: > >... Nroff/troff are not included, because, according > >to BT, they haven't gone through the validation suite and aren't up to the > >quality of everything else, but they'll sell it to you.... > > Now, THAT is no longer ambiguous, if this is true, then their ad is purposely > misleading the consumer. > > The ad states "The price includes ... and all other UNIX utilities, files > and programs, ...", but that seems to be OUTRIGHT UNTRUE. > What sort of reasoning is this, "It hasn't passed the tests so we'll > charge you extra for it"? > I get to be less and less impressed with the honesty of whoever makes > marketing decisions at Bell Technologies. This comment applies to n/troff only. These programs and their associated utilities (tbl, pic, etc.) are not part of UNIX SVR3; they have been unbundled from UNIX and are sold as Documenters' Workbench. The last AT&T UNIX version that provided n/troff as part of the base product was SVR1. That was the C/A/T version of troff (no device independence). I'm not sure exactly what Bell Tech is trying to say about n/troff and I don't know what you get when you ask for it. Since n/troff are no longer part of (AT&T) UNIX the fact that they aren't provided shouldn't be a reason to say Bell Tech's statement is "OUTRIGHT UNTRUE." [extra lines to force the fascist vnews program to post this reply] -- Jim Ingram uunet!h-three!jimi h-Three Systems Corporation P.O. Box 12557 RTP NC 27709 919 549 8334
jsp@sp7040.UUCP (John Peters) (07/26/88)
In article <148@dcs.UUCP>, wnp@dcs.UUCP (Wolf N. Paul) writes:
<^> >... Nroff/troff are not included, because, according
<^> >to BT, they haven't gone through the validation suite and aren't up to the
<^> >quality of everything else, but they'll sell it to you, so it's sort of still
<^> >unbundled.
<^>
<^> Now, THAT is no longer ambiguous, if this is true, then their ad is purposely
<^> misleading the consumer.
<^>
<^> The ad states "The price includes ... and all other UNIX utilities, files
<^> and programs, ...", but that seems to be OUTRIGHT UNTRUE.
<^>
<^> What sort of reasoning is this, "It hasn't passed the tests so we'll
<^> charge you extra for it"?
<^>
<^> I get to be less and less impressed with the honesty of whoever makes
<^> marketing decisions at Bell Technologies.
Here at Unisys we have put out two release of System V Release 3, one for
our 5000/80 to 5000/95 series and for our 6000/50. AT&T does not include
nroff and troff with System V Release 3. The Documentors Workbench is
a seperate product from AT&T now.
I think Bell Tech should be a little clearer in their ads but they do not
deserve to get picked on with nit noid stuff that is not even true.
-- Johnnie --dar@belltec.UUCP (Dimitri Rotow) (07/27/88)
In article <263@h-three.UUCP>, jimi@h-three.UUCP (jimi) writes: > In article <148@dcs.UUCP>, wnp@dcs.UUCP (Wolf N. Paul) writes: > > In article <2321@sugar.uu.net> karl@sugar.uu.net (Karl Lehenbauer) writes: > > >... Nroff/troff are not included, because, according > > >to BT, they haven't gone through the validation suite and aren't up to the > > >quality of everything else, but they'll sell it to you.... > > > > These programs and their associated utilities (tbl, pic, etc.) are > not part of UNIX SVR3; they have been unbundled from UNIX and are > sold as Documenters' Workbench. The last AT&T UNIX version that > provided n/troff as part of the base product was SVR1. That was > the C/A/T version of troff (no device independence). > > I'm not sure exactly what Bell Tech is trying to say about n/troff > and I don't know what you get when you ask for it. Since n/troff > are no longer part of (AT&T) UNIX the fact that they aren't provided > shouldn't be a reason to say Bell Tech's statement is "OUTRIGHT UNTRUE." > > Absolutely correct - AT&T has moved the "roffs" out of UNIX and into the seperately licensed DWB to join device independent troff. We license and distribute everything in SVID volumes 1, 2, and 3: that is the official definition of what UNIX is, and there is no more precise way to specify accurately what is or is not part of "real, complete UNIX" than to reference SVID. The previous posting referred to a comment in our manuals wherein we point out that DWB has not gone through System V Verification Suite (SVVS) as has UNIX System V itself. We said that therefore we were unenthusiastic about selling DWB because it does not have the same quality (from us or anyone else except Elan) as does System V itself. While we will sell (unsupported) a DWB package ported by us, we encourage all and sundry to purchase Elan's Eroff package. Eroff is a wonderful, well-supported, surprisingly well debugged commercial port of DWB complete with a host of features to support laser printers, X Window previewers, and other neat stuff. We don't sell the package (yet) because we feel that Elan's high class support is an important part of using DWB or Eroff in a production environment and that you best get the support by buying direct from Elan. - Dimitri Rotow
plocher@uport.UUCP (John Plocher) (07/30/88)
In article <247@belltec.UUCP> dar@belltec.UUCP (Dimitri Rotow) writes: > we encourage all and sundry to >purchase Elan's Eroff package. Eroff is a wonderful, well-supported, >surprisingly well debugged commercial port of DWB complete with a host of >features to support laser printers, X Window previewers, and other neat >stuff. > >- Dimitri Rotow Omygawd, Bell Tech and Microport agreeing on something! :-))))) I must echo Dimitri's comments, though. Elan's Eroff is simply the best *roff software I've ever used. Period. It works, it works well, and they support it to the hilt. -John Plocher