sandy@turnkey.TCC.COM (Sanford 'Sandy' Zelkovitz) (09/30/88)
To replay to "Mr. Turner's" remarks, I thought that I would included his entire article. Since "Mr. Turner" refused, in his article, to tell the real truth, I have also included a record of his activties on alphacm! The following is an exact copy of his article, as it arrivced: ----------------------------- cut here ------------------------------------ From: scotty@l5comp.UUCP (Scott Turner) Newsgroups: comp.unix.xenix,comp.unix.microport,comp.unix.questions,comp.sources.alt Subject: Re: TeX has arrived Summary: A real shock alright. Keywords: TeX XBBS alphacm Message-ID: <435@l5comp.UUCP> Date: 26 Sep 88 12:26:10 GMT References: <1908@turnkey.TCC.COM> Reply-To: scotty@l5comp.UUCP (Scott Turner) Organization: L5 Computing, Edmonds, WA Lines: 22 Xref: murph2 comp.unix.xenix:2278 comp.unix.microport:923 comp.unix.questions:5799 comp.sources.alt:20 In article <1908@turnkey.TCC.COM> sandy@turnkey.TCC.COM (Sanford 'Sandy' Zelkovitz) writes: >Sanford <sandy> Zelkovitz XBBS (alphacm) 714-898-8634 > >P.S. TeX takes MANY megabytes, so be ready for a shock! The shock is that even though you get 90 minutes a day and can download as soon as you sign up, you only get 500K of downloads per day. And if the TeX is anything like the X10R4 things are even worse. X10R4 is cut up into 350,000 byte chunks, so you can only grab 350,000 bytes a day! Last time I looked on uunet TeX was REAL big, might take well into 2 months to download at 350,000 bytes a day. Anyone else out there have X10R4 sources online? (The first 350,000 bytes were REAL nice, I don't think I can wait 10 days :) Scott Turner scotty@l5comp -or- uunet!l5comp!scotty "Ve hafe vays to make you talk! 350,000 bytes per day aught to sofen you up!" ----------------------- continuation of my comments ----------------------- "Mr. Turner" knows VERY well that the 500K daily limit is there to promote uploads to the system. Since he doesn't seem to like to share with others, that is all he gets! If he were to upload mere 200K, that amount would have been deducted from what he downloads. As he knows quit well, there is NO limit on what can be requested via uucp. He even has the NERVE to ask others if they have X10R4! I really don't know why he has done that since he requested all of the files via uucp from me! So that he doesn't deny this, the following is a copy of my uucp log: ********** l5comp ********** uucp l5comp (9/26-22:32:25,2451,0) OK (startup) uucp l5comp (9/26-22:34:03,2451,0) REMOTE REQUESTED (alphacm!/user/bbsfiles/big/x10.4/xw104.tar.Z-b --> l5comp!/usr/spool/uucppublic (root)) uucp l5comp (9/26-23:04:24,2451,1) REMOTE REQUESTED (alphacm!/user/bbsfiles/big/x10.4/xw104.tar.Z-c --> l5comp!/usr/spool/uucppublic (root)) uucp l5comp (9/26-23:31:50,2451,2) REMOTE REQUESTED (alphacm!/user/bbsfiles/big/x10.4/xw104.tar.Z-d --> l5comp!/usr/spool/uucppublic (root)) ********** l5comp ********** uucp l5comp (9/27-0:52:31,2618,0) OK (startup) uucp l5comp (9/27-0:52:33,2618,0) REMOTE REQUESTED (alphacm!/user/bbsfiles/big/x10.4/xw104.tar.Z-f --> l5comp!/usr/spool/uucppublic (root)) uucp l5comp (9/27-1:21:07,2618,1) REMOTE REQUESTED (alphacm!/user/bbsfiles/big/x10.4/xw104.tar.Z-g --> l5comp!/usr/spool/uucppublic (root)) uucp l5comp (9/27-1:47:52,2618,2) REMOTE REQUESTED (alphacm!/user/bbsfiles/big/x10.4/xw104.tar.Z-h --> l5comp!/usr/spool/uucppublic (root)) uucp l5comp (9/27-2:15:24,2618,3) REMOTE REQUESTED (alphacm!/user/bbsfiles/big/x10.4/xw104.tar.Z-i --> l5comp!/usr/spool/uucppublic (root)) uucp l5comp (9/27-2:42:53,2618,4) REMOTE REQUESTED (alphacm!/user/bbsfiles/big/x10.4/xw104.tar.Z-j --> l5comp!/usr/spool/uucppublic (root)) uucp l5comp (9/27-3:11:19,2618,5) REMOTE REQUESTED (alphacm!/user/bbsfiles/big/x10.4/xw104.tar.Z-k --> l5comp!/usr/spool/uucppublic (root)) uucp l5comp (9/27-3:38:28,2618,6) REMOTE REQUESTED (alphacm!/user/bbsfiles/big/x10.4/xw104.tar.Z-l --> l5comp!/usr/spool/uucppublic (root)) root l5comp (9/27-3:45:32,2618,7) CAUGHT (SIGNAL 1) uucp l5comp (9/27-4:34:32,2871,0) OK (startup) uucp l5comp (9/27-4:34:35,2871,0) REMOTE REQUESTED (alphacm!/user/bbsfiles/big/x10.4/xw104.tar.Z-l --> l5comp!/usr/spool/uucppublic (root)) uucp l5comp (9/27-5:05:19,2871,1) REMOTE REQUESTED (alphacm!/user/bbsfiles/big/x10.4/xw104.tar.Z-m --> l5comp!/usr/spool/uucppublic (root)) uucp l5comp (9/27-5:32:30,2871,2) REMOTE REQUESTED (alphacm!/user/bbsfiles/big/x10.4/xw104.tar.Z-n --> l5comp!/usr/spool/uucppublic (root)) uucp l5comp (9/27-5:59:14,2871,3) REMOTE REQUESTED (alphacm!/user/bbsfiles/big/x10.4/xw104.tar.Z-o --> l5comp!/usr/spool/uucppublic (root)) uucp l5comp (9/27-6:12:44,2871,4) OK (conversation complete tty1A 5894) I really wish I knew why he would post such a message. The saddest part of all is that he didn't even say "thank-you" for making this available. I will, at least, say that you are welcome! Sanford <sandy> Zelkovitz XBBS 714-898-8634
scotty@l5comp.UUCP (Scott Turner) (10/02/88)
[Those interested in downloading TeX from Sandy's BBS may wish to skip
my counterflames and read the section of this article which describes
how long and how much it will cost to download TeX from Sandy's BBS]
In article <1930@turnkey.TCC.COM> sandy@turnkey.TCC.COM (Sanford 'Sandy' Zelkovitz) writes:
[Bunch of garbage from Sandy, not clearly thought out or researched and quite
frankly, due to the very personal attacks, should have been sent via E-Mail
to clear this mess up before dragging the net into it.]
I think Sandy's message confirms my posting that he did indeed deliberately
split the X10R4 sources into 350,000 chunks so you could only get one chunk
a day. I have since researched this matter to find that most of the larger
items on his BBS follow this sizing policy.
Sandy also doesn't take the time to mention that I offered him access to
ANYTHING he wanted off uunet (which l5comp has a trailblazer connection
with) in exchange for X10R4.
Why no mention of that in your FLAME attack Sandy? Trying to distract people
away from yer policy? In fact why the personal attack saying I don't like
to share when I offered to do just that? I'm confused. :(
After logging in again and finding no message from Sandy in reply to my
postings (note, that's postings not posting) I wracked my brain and came up
with the uucp approach. It worked great.
And I still intended to send Sandy anything he wanted off uunet, I even
offered him a directory listing and several suggestions about items I thought
he might like.
And if he bothered to check the time on the USENET posting against his
uucp logs he would find that the USENET posting was made before the uucp
downloads! Using uucp really did come to me as a brain storm Sandy. Even
as I setup to try it I wasn't certain that the same restrictions weren't
in affect on uucp as well. And your system did hang up twice costing me
nearly an hour in wasted download time (it waited till byte count 290,00
to drop the line rather than in between files.)
I'm PLENTY willing to share, I've said so all along. I think you're just a
teensy bit sensitive about your draconian "BY GOD YOU WILL SHARE WITH ME!"
policy and probably thought I was such a sleeze that I'd grab the goods and
not honor my offer. (About the only reasoning I can come up with for your
line of attack)
I'm happy to say I'm not quite the tiny person you seem convinced I am.
Whatever the outcome of my conflict with Sandy, my posting about his system
is still 100% accurate. However, it can be extended by saying that if you
have as many bytes to upload as you want to download you can get the bytes
faster. Or is it if you upload 200K a day you can download 700K a day? I'd
ask Sandy but he seems too emotional on this topic. :(
----------Begin section on "How long and how much $$$ to get TeX?"---------
Here's what uunet has to say about TeX:
/usr/spool/ftp/TeX:
total 21899
That's 21.899Mb folks. Let's see, we'll assume 2400 baud login and the user
will upload 200K a day and download 700K a day (giving Sandy the benefit
of the doubt on his "sharing" policy), how long will it take?
His box gave 729KB per hour at 2400 baud so the user will JUST be able
to download/upload his daily 900K if the line stays clean and he moves
around quickly from the upload to download area. You'll note that uploading
more than 200K won't get you more than 700K per day since you'll run into
the 90 minute login limit.
So at 700K per day that will mean 32 days of downloading/uploading. Plus
you will have to come up with 6,200,000 bytes of trade goods. (Assuming
you can find things that come out to EXACTLY 200,000 bytes for 31 days, and
you have very few minutes per day to see if he already has what you intend
to upload)
What will the above cost? Well assuming $9 an hour for long distance that
works out to roughly $432 plus state/federal taxes above the $9 an hour
rate.
Now, if you don't upload anything to Sandy's BBS what are the figures?
Download time in days: 62 days (damn I was off by 1 day!)
Download cost: roughly $279
So, if you're willing to take an extra month doing it you can save yerself
around $153.
A potential downloader should also be aware that getting into Sandy's BBS
can take a LONG time. A demon dialer and about an hour should get you
through though. But you may need to set aside 2.5 hours a night for 31 to
62 days in order to grab TeX.
I don't think my original warning was all that far out of line now was it
Sandy?
After your ill-researched PUBLIC attack upon my character I don't know if
thanks are still in order for allowing me to download X10R4, but I'll extend
them anyway and hope I don't draw back a stump in the process.
Thank you!
<count fingers quick!>
Anyway, even if you aren't hunting for TeX I think most people may want to
give Sandy's BBS a call. It's one of the BEST unix BBS' I've ever run across.
His selection is MUCH richer than even that available on uunet. (Although uunet
does have several items he doesn't) Well worth the call if you're looking
for something less massive than TeX. (But also compounding the problems for
those poor souls trying to come up with 200,000 bytes a day for 31 days)
Scott Turner
scotty@l5comp -or- uunet!l5comp!scottysandy@turnkey.TCC.COM (Sanford 'Sandy' Zelkovitz) (10/03/88)
In article <440@l5comp.UUCP>, scotty@l5comp.UUCP (Scott Turner) writes: > [Those interested in downloading TeX from Sandy's BBS may wish to skip > my counterflames and read the section of this article which describes > how long and how much it will cost to download TeX from Sandy's BBS] > > In article <1930@turnkey.TCC.COM> sandy@turnkey.TCC.COM (Sanford 'Sandy' Zelkovitz) writes: > [ rest left out] > Scott Turner > scotty@l5comp -or- uunet!l5comp!scotty If users of my BBS would read the bulletins that are available and NOT go immediately to the file section, they would know why and how to get the larger files with only ONE call! As explained in one of the bulletins, there is no limit ( either time or byte count ) when files are requested using uucp. Also, I go to lengths describing how to determine the exact path name(s) of the files. You have gone in length describing the cost calling the system. You did forget, however, that my system is available through PC Pursuit. Unlike uunet, I do not charge for usage! Also, unlike uunet, I have to restrict time (only through the bbs) so that others can also get on the system. If I were charging for usage time, obviously, I would NOT break up the files and force you to stay on for many hours. You see, I am a believer of one person helping another. If you don't believe the same, then you should find needed code elsewhere. Scott, you went to extremes describing how much it would cost making the calls, you neglected to describe how much you would have to pay uunet for the connect time. Where do you think I get the files? As you can tell, many come directly from the net; however, many others come from other sources and they, believe me, aren't free. Tapes have to be purchased and telephone calls have to be paid for. I have NEVER asked for a dime in return! All I have ever asked, as you know when you "download a file", is some usable file in return so that others can also benefit. I will repeat, so that others can benefit, not me! You see, I truely believe in the free software concept. That is why I have donated many programs to the public. Scott, you also mentioned about your posting(s) on how you can get me code from uunet. I have been trying to remember a single one. Honestly, if you did, I do not remember. I am sorry that my system "cut you off" during the uucp transfers. That one, you can blame "Ma Bell" since I do not cut off the transmissions. I will cut off users ( the software will ) when they log into the bbs, once their time has been used up, but not during a file transfer. You mentioned about using a Trailblazer so that files can be transferred at a higher rate. Sure, I would love to have one; however, that too costs money. Again. if I were charging you for the usage, it would be easy to justify. Presently, all I can do is use three inexpensive US Robotics 2400 baud modems and one old Hayes 1200. You also went into length about the speed of uucp transfers. Well, I am running HDB uucp with a master selected protocol. Since you select the protocol, as the master when you call in, I can't run any faster! I constantly get requests for files to be sent on floppy disks or on 60 meg streaming tape. If I had the time to do it, I would. Unfortunately, to fill all of the requests would take all of my time! Normally, I do not return messages when such a request is made. I just don't have the time to do it. If I sound redundant, I am sorry; however, the 500K limit, through the BBS, is more than generous. If you call other bbs systems, you will find much lower limits. You didn't like the extra 200K uploads as my example, I am sorry; however, that is one of my main sources for new shareable code. It saves me the telephone costs of trying to locate new code for others to download. Sure, I have a GREAT selection of files for downloading. I guess my madness must work! If I get upset when I read such inflamatory remarks about my efforts to help others, I am sure you can understand. Believe me, I am reaching the end of the rope. I have been thinking about two possible alternatives: 1) Just turn the !@#$#%^% system off! 2) Start charging for usage! Neither is acceptable to me; however, it may just be the only answer. Sanford <sandy> Zelkovitz XBBS 714-898-8634
dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) (10/03/88)
In article <1948@turnkey.TCC.COM> sandy@turnkey.TCC.COM (Sanford 'Sandy'
Zelkovitz) writes and writes and writes (and not for the first time):
Jeezus, man, keep this kvetching for the BBS airwaves or save it for
your shrink. No one gives a damn, OK? Gad I can't stand people who
provide a service for free but think that gives them the right to piss
and moan to anyone within earshot. This SYSOP BBS mentality is revolting.
Yap, yap, yammer, yammer.
Shut the damn service off or charge a fee, but keep us out of it.
--
Steve Dyer
dyer@harvard.harvard.edu
dyer@spdcc.COM aka {harvard,husc6,linus,ima,bbn,m2c,mipseast}!spdcc!dyerhow@milhow1.UUCP (Mike Howard) (10/04/88)
After watching the `excitement' over TeX on Sandy's BBS and the flame/counter-flame non-sense, I think that it is appropriate to post a pointer to Pierre MacKay and the Northwest Computer Support Group for those who really want to get the latest version and to try to put it up. BTW - I have been plugging at it a little part time and have run into a real problem getting tangle to run on weave and tex. If anyone out there has some clues - please send 'em my way. ------------cut here for e-mail from MacKay's valiant crew----------- Date: Sat, 2 Jul 88 12:03:41 PDT From: uunet!june.cs.washington.edu!mackay (Pierre MacKay) Message-Id: <8807021903.AA28254@june.cs.washington.edu> To: milhow1!how In-Reply-To: decvax!uunet.UU.NET!milhow1!how@beaver's message of Tue Jun 28 13:39:10 1988 <8806290553.AA28568@uunet.UU.NET> To order a full distribution of TeX, send $140.00 for a 1/2 inch 9-track tape, $165.00 for two 4-track 1/4 inch cartridge tapes (foreign sites $150.00, for 1/2 inch, $175.00 for 1/4 inch, to cover the extra postage) payable to the University of Washington to: The Director Northwest Computer Support Group, DW-10 University of Washington Seattle, Washington 98195 Purchase orders are now acceptable, but there will be an extra charge of $10.00, owing to the processing charges we incur. (Total of $150 for domestic sites, $175 for foreign sites). The normal distribution is a tar tape, blocked 20, 1600 bpi, on an industry standard 2400 foot half-inch reel. If you need 1/4 inch streamer cartridges for the SUN, be sure to tell us. The 1/4 inch physical format is QIC-11, 8000 bpi, 4-track serpentine recording. We can send QIC-24 cartridges, but there will be a delay, since we have to make the master off campus and send it away for copying. QIC-24 orders will be saved up and sent off periodically to keep external copying costs down. We cannot write nine-track on cartridges, nor can we write TK50 cartridges for the DEC Microvax. SystemV tapes can be written in cpio format, blocked 5120 bytes, ASCII headers, but we prefer not to, since cpio format is extremely slow and wastes a great deal of tape on inter-record gaps. Again, please specify this if you want it, and check to see that you really can read QIC-11 tapes. Some 3Bx s will only read QIC-24, which seems insane. The original organization of the distribution reflected the use of pascal for all compilations of TeX, TeXware, BibTeX, METAFONT and MFware. This has now been supplemented by a more convenient and more generally portable WEB-to-C compilation for TeX, TeXware, and METAFONT. (We hope to add the change files for C compilation of MFware and BibTeX in the near future.) LaTeX and AMSTeX are macro packages processed by TeX, and do not require any further compilation. [lots of good information about the distribution - deleted. For full text of this message - e-mail to Pierre MacKay] Since TeX is free public-domain software, just about everything that can be sent out in source form is included on the tape. There are no licensing restrictions, and only minor copyright restrictions as noted in the affected files. Pierre A. MacKay TUG Site Coordinator for Unix-flavored TeX ------------------------end of e-mail------------------------------------- -- Mike Howard uunet!milhow1!how
fr@icdi10.uucp (Fred Rump from home) (10/05/88)
In article <1972@spdcc.COM>, dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) writes: > In article <1948@turnkey.TCC.COM> sandy@turnkey.TCC.COM (Sanford 'Sandy' > Zelkovitz) writes and writes and writes (and not for the first time): > < Jeezus, man, keep this kvetching for the BBS airwaves or save it for < your shrink. No one gives a damn, OK? Gad I can't stand people who < Yap, yap, yammer, yammer. < Steve Dyer It's terrible to have people on the net who only wish to hear themselves propagated. If you don't like what somebody has to say, don't read the damn stuff. Turn the system off. Get off the net - whatever. But don't jump all over a guy for serving as feed for a lot of software SOME people may want. -- {allegra killer gatech!uflorida decvax!ucf-cs}!ki4pv!cdis-1!cdin-1!icdi10!fr 26 Warren St. or ...{bellcore,rutgers,cbmvax}!bpa!cdin-1!icdi10!fr Beverly, NJ 08010 or...!bikini.cis.ufl.edu!ki4pv!cdis-1!cdin-1!icdi10!fr 609-386-6846 "Freude... Alle Menschen werden Brueder..." - Schiller -- {allegra killer gatech!uflorida decvax!ucf-cs}!ki4pv!cdis-1!cdin-1!icdi10!fr 26 Warren St. or ...{bellcore,rutgers,cbmvax}!bpa!cdin-1!icdi10!fr Beverly, NJ 08010 or...!bikini.cis.ufl.edu!ki4pv!cdis-1!cdin-1!icdi10!fr 609-386-6846 "Freude... Alle Menschen werden Brueder..." - Schiller
jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US (The Beach Bum) (10/07/88)
In article <7063@icdi10.uucp> fr@icdi10.uucp (Fred Rump from home) writes: >In article <1972@spdcc.COM>, dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) writes: >> In article <1948@turnkey.TCC.COM> sandy@turnkey.TCC.COM (Sanford 'Sandy' >> Zelkovitz) writes and writes and writes (and not for the first time): >> >< Jeezus, man, keep this kvetching for the BBS airwaves or save it for >< your shrink. No one gives a damn, OK? Gad I can't stand people who >< Yap, yap, yammer, yammer. >< Steve Dyer >It's terrible to have people on the net who only wish to hear themselves >propagated. >If you don't like what somebody has to say, don't read the damn stuff. Turn >the system off. Get off the net - whatever. But don't jump all over a guy for >serving as feed for a lot of software SOME people may want. But this doesn't give Sandy the right to carry on the religious tirade which he had engaged in. After two or three times it is definitely a good idea to let it rest. The discussion should LONG have been taken to e-mail or alt.flame. Many of the people in comp.unix.xenix have paid a visit to my system. I do not get up on a horse [ except from time to time ] and cram my opinions down someones throat. Sandy needs to accept the fact that there are ingrates and just live with it. If I was running this system for the gratitude I receive, I'd have pulled the plug months ago. However, the occassional Thank-You note [ plus 254 YES votes for comp.archives ;-) ] is indication enough to me that what I do is appreciated, even if some asshole makes a stink like the joker who started slamming Sandy in the first place. -- John F. Haugh II (jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US) HASA, "S" Division "Why waste negative entropy on comments, when you could use the same entropy to create bugs instead?" -- Steve Elias
sbc@sp7040.UUCP (Stephen Carroll) (10/08/88)
In article <7063@icdi10.uucp>, fr@icdi10.uucp (Fred Rump from home) writes: ] In article <1972@spdcc.COM>, dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) writes: ] > In article <1948@turnkey.TCC.COM> sandy@turnkey.TCC.COM (Sanford 'Sandy' ] > Zelkovitz) writes and writes and writes (and not for the first time): ] > ] < Jeezus, man, keep this kvetching for the BBS airwaves or save it for ] < your shrink. No one gives a damn, OK? Gad I can't stand people who ] < Yap, yap, yammer, yammer. ] < Steve Dyer ] It's terrible to have people on the net who only wish to hear themselves ] propagated. ] If you don't like what somebody has to say, don't read the damn stuff. Turn ] the system off. Get off the net - whatever. But don't jump all over a guy for > serving as feed for a lot of software SOME people may want. ] -- I don't think you got what Steve was complaining about Fred. It wasn't anything about any software that Sandy may supply people with. It was about all the bitching between Sandy and some other complainer that should have been kept between the two and off the net.
scotty@l5comp.UUCP (Scott Turner) (10/08/88)
In article <1948@turnkey.TCC.COM> sandy@turnkey.TCC.COM (Sanford 'Sandy' Zelkovitz) writes: [ Sandy proves he can think/post calmly ] >If users of my BBS would read the bulletins that are available and NOT go >immediately to the file section, they would know why and how to get the larger Alas I have logged into so many bbs systems that I've tired of reading bulletins. Most are full of "This is a bbs, it has many features, like electronic mail... (do you know what electronic mail is?)" I'm not going to put them down, but I'm not about to pay to read 'em. I've always yearned for a BBS with a bulletin "Quick tour for BBS veterans". >You have gone in length describing the cost calling the system. You did forget, >however, that my system is available through PC Pursuit. Unlike uunet, I do >not charge for usage! Also, unlike uunet, I have to restrict time (only through Yes, I did forget about PC Pursuit. But I can't image trying to get through to your bbs via PC Pursuit. It's tough enough via Ma Bell. (Probably mostly due to assholes like me downloading X10R4 I will admit :) >you neglected to describe how much you would have to pay uunet for the connect >time. OK, I get 1.8Mb per hour out of uunet at around 04:00 (calling at other times reduces throughput most of the time). That comes out to 12.16 hours @ $9 an hour (with NO federal/state taxes, unlike using MaBell) that comes to: $109.45. Less than what the good people at the University of Washington charge for a tape. And that 1.8Mb per hour figure is piss poor for a Telebit trailblazer+. It should be delivering 5.4Mb per hour (that's 4.05 hours and $36) but alas I've never seen this level of performance talking to uunet (other sites have delivered quite nicely though.) So your mileage may vary about how much you'd pay uunet to download TeX. >and one old Hayes 1200. You also went into length about the speed of uucp >transfers. Well, I am running HDB uucp with a master selected protocol. Since >you select the protocol, as the master when you call in, I can't run any >faster! My rule of thumb is 350,000 bytes per hour at 1200 baud and 750,000 bytes per hour at 2400 baud. Your system was performing quite nicely. >If I sound redundant, I am sorry; however, the 500K limit, through the BBS, >is more than generous. If you call other bbs systems, you will find >much lower limits. You didn't like the extra 200K uploads as my example, I Actually I have found that most systems that make splashy postings on the net proclaiming themselves as a source for something don't have daily Kb download limits. They may have time limits so everyone can get a shot, or have their uucp hangup after each file transfered (again to give everyone a shot), but I haven't run into another one with Kb limits. To each his own. >If I get upset when I read such inflamatory remarks about my efforts to >help others, I am sure you can understand. Believe me, I am reaching the >end of the rope. I have been thinking about two possible alternatives: > >1) Just turn the !@#$#%^% system off! >2) Start charging for usage! If option 2 includes adding a Trailblazer+ and 5.4Mb per hour download speeds, HEY I'm all for it! uunet just isn't delivering the bang for the bux for l5comp. Thankfully this flame battle has had a bright side for myself at least. I have been far too complacent about uunet, time to raise some hell instead of just quietly sending them another check. (They love bitching at me about the rate at which they get checks, but haven't responded to my bitching about the rate at which they send me bytes.) Scott Turner scotty@l5comp -or- uunet!l5comp!scotty
root@chief.UUCP (Lance Ellinghouse) (10/11/88)
In article <441@l5comp.UUCP>, scotty@l5comp.UUCP (Scott Turner) writes: > >You have gone in length describing the cost calling the system. You did forget, > >however, that my system is available through PC Pursuit. Unlike uunet, I do > >not charge for usage! Also, unlike uunet, I have to restrict time (only through > > Yes, I did forget about PC Pursuit. But I can't image trying to get through > to your bbs via PC Pursuit. It's tough enough via Ma Bell. (Probably mostly > due to assholes like me downloading X10R4 I will admit :) I use PC Pursuit ALL the time and I have very little trouble geting through to Sandy's system. If you use the auto-redial features that PC Pursuit has it is very easy to get onto his system. It might take a little while, but it is no harder than calling direct using * Bell. > >If I sound redundant, I am sorry; however, the 500K limit, through the BBS, > >is more than generous. If you call other bbs systems, you will find > >much lower limits. You didn't like the extra 200K uploads as my example, I > > Actually I have found that most systems that make splashy postings on the net > proclaiming themselves as a source for something don't have daily Kb download > limits. They may have time limits so everyone can get a shot, or have their > uucp hangup after each file transfered (again to give everyone a shot), but > I haven't run into another one with Kb limits. Most of the boards around here have both a time limit and some sort of download restriction. Either time or % of upload vs. download. Having a flat download rate is nice as you don't have to worry about what your % is or other things of that sort. Also I have seen a lot of boards that DON'T allow downloading until you have uploaded a certain amount or until you have paid for it. > Scott Turner > scotty@l5comp -or- uunet!l5comp!scotty Lance Ellinghouse Chief Numismatics, Inc. ARPA: ucla-an!hermix!chief!lance@ee.UCLA.EDU UUCP: {hermix|alphacm|ucla-an|srhqla}!chief!lance BBS : CompuInvest (818) 884-7821 24 hours 1200 baud [XBBS Ver. 7.2.1]
jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US (The Beach Bum) (10/22/88)
In article <390@chief.UUCP> root@chief.UUCP (Lance Ellinghouse) writes: >In article <441@l5comp.UUCP>, scotty@l5comp.UUCP (Scott Turner) writes: >> Actually I have found that most systems that make splashy postings on the net >> proclaiming themselves as a source for something don't have daily Kb download >> limits. They may have time limits so everyone can get a shot, or have their >> uucp hangup after each file transfered (again to give everyone a shot), but >> I haven't run into another one with Kb limits. > >Most of the boards around here have both a time limit and some sort of download >restriction. Either time or % of upload vs. download. Having a flat download >rate is nice as you don't have to worry about what your % is or other things >of that sort. Also I have seen a lot of boards that DON'T allow downloading >until you have uploaded a certain amount or until you have paid for it. This entire discussion hinges on what manner of system you are connecting to. A BBS is going to have lots of users parked on phone lines for long periods of time reading silly bulletins. An archive site [ the ones that make splashy postings about having something ] is going to have people calling up for UUCP file transfers and then getting off of the line. If you consider the difference in file transfer ability between an archive site, where users can't park on a phone line and waste connection time, and an archive site where the user is constantly downloading something useful, you MIGHT begin to appreciate the difference. Sandy, the reason for this entire discussion, runs a BBS. Certainly there are people who call it up and screw off for hours on end. Me, I operate rpp386 as an archive site. People can't just park on a line and do nothing for hours on end. And when people abuse the few ways to waste a few minutes that there are, I remove even those access methods. An archive site is a `stuff provider'. A BBS is a both a provider and a consumer. And without limits the BBS is going to run out of stuff to provide. And that, boys and girls, is a no-fun situation. -- John F. Haugh II +----Make believe quote of the week---- VoiceNet: (214) 250-3311 Data: -6272 | Nancy Reagan on Richard Stallman: InterNet: jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US | "Just say `Gno'" UucpNet : <backbone>!killer!rpp386!jfh +--------------------------------------
jsalmi@gonzo.ETA.COM (John Salmi) (10/25/88)
In article <8178@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US> jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US (The Beach Bum) writes: >In article <390@chief.UUCP> root@chief.UUCP (Lance Ellinghouse) writes: >>In article <441@l5comp.UUCP>, scotty@l5comp.UUCP (Scott Turner) writes: and here i thought that alt.sources was for SOUCE CODE postings! silly me. -john salmi jsalmi@mondo.eta.com -eta systems inc -st paul, mn