pst@canary.cdi.com (Paul Traina) (11/25/88)
I'm currently an owner of Microport SV/AT (286), and I'm in the process of
upgrading my machine. I've just purchased an RLL disk controller, and am
going to get a 386 in the very near future. I know uport SV/AT 2.4 supports
the RLL disk controller, so my first idea was just going with uport.
However, since I am going to get a 386, I'm trying to decide which way I
should go (uport vs bell tech).
Does bell tech support the Adaptec 2732 RLL controller?
How much would it cost to purchase a complete bell tech system?
(I hear the uport upgrade will cost me slightly under $500).
Who is more reliable these days? I've been reasonably satisfied with my
uport equipment, but the idea of running X on my home computer is nudging
me towards Bell Tech. Have they come out with an X11 port for their blitter
board yet?
------
Paul Traina To believe that what is true for
{uunet|pyramid}!comdesign!pst you in your private heart is true
pst@cdi.com for all men, that is genius.dave@pmafire.UUCP (Dave Remien) (11/25/88)
In article <570@comdesign.CDI.COM> pst@canary.cdi.com (Paul Traina) writes: >I'm currently an owner of Microport SV/AT (286), and I'm in the process of >upgrading my machine. I've just purchased an RLL disk controller, and am >going to get a 386 in the very near future. I know uport SV/AT 2.4 supports >the RLL disk controller, so my first idea was just going with uport. > Don't know about Bell Tech support for an RLL controller; uPort V3.0e can. My Bell Tech has the WD1007 ESDI controller, and works *very* well. >However, since I am going to get a 386, I'm trying to decide which way I >should go (uport vs bell tech). > >Does bell tech support the Adaptec 2732 RLL controller? >How much would it cost to purchase a complete bell tech system? >(I hear the uport upgrade will cost me slightly under $500). A quote from Bell Tech recently was that the entire UNIX and software development package was going to be about $1100 to $1200 to *upgrade* from System V 3.0 to 3.2; due to AT&T claims that it was essentially a new system. > >Who is more reliable these days? I've been reasonably satisfied with my >uport equipment, but the idea of running X on my home computer is nudging >me towards Bell Tech. Have they come out with an X11 port for their blitter >board yet? > Um, we've got the X10 package for the Blit board in our Bell engine, and it's less than reliable (freezes several times per week, under moderate to light usage. Sometimes you can call in over the network and croak X; sometimes not). Running plain UNIX, it's dead reliable. Running SNAP 2.0 TCP, there are some glitches, but the people who supply Bell with TCP/IP called me Wednesday, and told me that there is a new version (2.1) available, and appeared to be very concerned about the other problem I had (less won't wait for a character at end of page over TCP connection). Bell is hard at work on X11; but they won't quote a delivery date. Microport is also looking hard at X11, but haven't settled on a package (as of a couple of weeks ago; last time I talked to John Plocher). The only crashes I've had with Microport 3.0e in the last month have been when the 8 port dumb digiboard gets a bunch of trash thrown at it. Needless to say, I'm replacing it with a smart board. > >------ >Paul Traina To believe that what is true for >{uunet|pyramid}!comdesign!pst you in your private heart is true >pst@cdi.com for all men, that is genius. To summarize: I like both packages; Microport because they talk to a much wider range of hardware, and have been quite responsive (thanks to John Plocher and John Sully) of late (last six months); and Bell (specifically Alan Holmes) has been very accomodating, though their take-it-or-leave-it software policy may not be for everyone. And I'm really dying to get my hands on X11 for a '386, with say 1280 by 1024 by 256 color graphics. -- Dave Remien - WINCO Computer Engineering Group (only somewhat confused, now) 208-526-3523 Paths: ...!bigtex!pmafire!dave | ...!ucdavis!egg-id!pma386!dave
larry@focsys.UUCP (Larry Williamson) (11/26/88)
In article <570@comdesign.CDI.COM> pst@canary.cdi.com (Paul Traina) writes: >I'm currently an owner of Microport SV/AT (286), and I'm in the process of >upgrading my machine. I've just purchased an RLL disk controller, and am >going to get a 386 in the very near future. I know uport SV/AT 2.4 supports >the RLL disk controller, so my first idea was just going with uport. Yes, the RLL support works very well. >However, since I am going to get a 386, I'm trying to decide which way I >should go (uport vs bell tech). > >Does bell tech support the Adaptec 2732 RLL controller? No! BT only supports an RLL drive if you buy THEIR computer system!! They install a special version of the Bios on the motherboards they sell. I did not find out about this until it was too late. They will not sell you one of these precious little chips for all the money in the world. I tried. They say, "we get the motherboards from intel with this chip installed, you'll have to get the chip from intel", intel says "you want a what?, never heard of it". >How much would it cost to purchase a complete bell tech system? >(I hear the uport upgrade will cost me slightly under $500). Be careful here, you are looking at purchase price as though it is the cost of admission. Read on. If you are happy with the Microport system, don't go to the BT software! I'm using BT's 386 system and Microport's 286 system. When I have my choice, I'm sitting at the uport system. Why? Virtual terminals, a floppy drive that is more than twice as fast, nroff, RLL disk drive, these are my main reasons. >Who is more reliable these days? I've been reasonably satisfied with my >uport equipment, but the idea of running X on my home computer is nudging >me towards Bell Tech. Have they come out with an X11 port for their blitter >board yet? If you are satisifed with uport, stay with them. BT has X10.4, not X11. If you want to run X on your machine, you should probably look at the Interactive 386 system. They have X11 for VGA. Do you use nroff? Or any of the DWB stuff? BT does not include this. They recommend that you by the Elan package. Elan sells an excellent DWB2.0 replacement. Top notch. And nearly $1000.00 to boot. Don't be blinded by the apparent low purchase price. By the time you've bought all the special BT hardware that their software needs, you will have more than payed for a *good* package. Consider smart serial cards for example. Let's assume that you want to use one. Let's also assume that for some peculiar reason, you have already decided which one you like, (based on price, support, availablity, maybe it is used in a few dozen other machines at your company and you want it for compatiblity reasons, etc). Now call the board's manufacturer and ask them which unix systems they sell drivers for. Betcha BT is not on the list! You *might* be able to use the drivers on the BT system, but you *probably* won't be able to. BT has probably the lowest third party hardware/software support of any 286/386 based unix. Do you want to use the tape software? You will need to buy their tape drive hardware (and believe me, with the speed of their floppy disk drive, you DO want to use tape!), (even paper tape is faster!!). I believe that BT sells unix only to help sell their hardware. They add no features or enhancements to the unix other than the drivers for their hardware. Basically, I see this as a conflict of interest. They don't want to support other hardware, just their own. If you run their software on their hardware, it is an adequate product with reasonable support. If you have other hardware, don't even call them. I'm sure this is going to cause another wave of 'vender bender' but oh well. good luck. Larry -- Larry Williamson -- Focus Systems -- Waterloo, Ontario watmath!focsys!larry (519) 746-4918
jack@turnkey.TCC.COM (Jack F. Vogel) (11/27/88)
In article <276@focsys.UUCP> larry@focsys.UUCP (Larry Williamson) writes: >In article <570@comdesign.CDI.COM> pst@canary.cdi.com (Paul Traina) writes: >>I'm currently an owner of Microport SV/AT (286), and I'm in the process of >>upgrading my machine. I've just purchased an RLL disk controller, and am >>going to get a 386 in the very near future. I know uport SV/AT 2.4 supports >>the RLL disk controller, so my first idea was just going with uport. >>However, since I am going to get a 386, I'm trying to decide which way I >>should go (uport vs bell tech). >> [Much useful discussion of Bell's lack of 3rd party hardware support deleted] Why in your options are you leaving out SCO's 386 package? It supports RLL, I have clients that use the 2372 controller. Turnkey is using a WD1006RAH and its use is completely transparent, you just tell hdinit that you have 26 sectors per track. SCO is also soon to release X-windows although I am not sure what version. Furthermore if any Unix vendor shines when it comes to third party hardware support it is SCO. Also, depending on your time table, SCO will have full Unix 3.2 sometime in early 89. As to the complaint about SCO being expensive, I think it you compare the contents of what you are getting versus what you pay, I think you will find that each vendor is really fairly competitively priced. Larry points out that Bell seems to sell Unix only to sell their hardware, I would completely agree with this, this is a problem unless you plan to purchase a complete hardware - software bundled package from them, and heaven help you later if you decide to add anything. Interactive, being a software house would be a better choice. There is one more consideration which in my mind rules out Bell completely and makes me less than happy with Interactive as well, and that is support. Turnkey has used a Bell ICC card for something around a year, during that time we have had some problems with it, nothing fatal mind you but just minor annoyances that in my mind should have been addressed by Bell. But although they have promised to have technical support call a couple of different times they NEVER have! Sometimes even getting ahold of a sales person's ear is an excercise in extreme patience! Likewise with Interactive, I have called them on a couple of different occasions just to make some inquiries about their products and I have again NEVER had my calls returned. This is in stark contrast to SCO, when I call them on a product question I have always had either immediately response or a call back within an hour or so. Technical support, while they may take a day or so to respond, has also never failed to return my calls; and in the case where they are unable to resolve a customers problem over the phone, they will refer him to a knowledgable consultant in their area who they can contact for help (in my area this is usually TCC :-}). To summarize my somewhat long ramblings I would say "Stay away from Bell!!", give SCO some serious consideration, or perhaps ISC. I can really give little advice about uport or at least their 386 product since I have never had occassion to work with it. -- Jack F. Vogel Turnkey Computer Consultants, Costa Mesa, CA UUCP: ...{nosc|uunet}!turnkey!jack Internet: jack@turnkey.TCC.COM