henk@bebux.UUCP (Henk Dijkstra) (12/20/88)
I've just received the new documentation for the Microport R3V3.0e release which states there is now support for the Everex 830,833 and 811-B controllers. I would like to purchase a tape-streamer however one of my wishes is that it is compatible with "frequently" used tape-streamers on UNIX systems. From what I hear that means I have to buy a "QIC-24" format compatible cartridge tape-streamer. My problem is (since no one here in Holland can sell an Everex tapestreamer "off the shelf") I have not any clue in what all those controller numbers mean. Is there anybody willing to help me out? So I end up with an UNIX compatible tapestreamer i.o. some MSDOS device. Please help me! -- Henk Dijkstra : BETRONIC B.V. USENET : henk@bebux.UUCP : PO-box 4317 ..!hp4nl!bebux!henk : 1009 AH AMSTERDAM, NL VOICE : (+31) 20 6652251 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
plocher@uport.UUCP (John Plocher) (12/20/88)
In article <1516@bebux.UUCP> henk@bebux.UUCP (Henk Dijkstra) writes: >I've just received the new documentation for the Microport R3V3.0e release >which states there is now support for the Everex 830,833 and 811-B controllers. > I have not any clue in what >all those controller numbers mean. Is there anybody willing to help me out? You will be safe in asking for a system which is: A) Everex or Archive or Wangtek (Not Colorado Memory Systems, Irwin, Mountain etc...) B) 60 Megabyte or 120 Megabyte (Not 20 or 40 Mb) C) DC600A Cartridge (Not Cassette or DC2000) The differences between the above controllers is the layout of the three things which make up a tape system: 1) Host Interface 2) Formatter board 3) Drive Unit (QIC-24 is a tape format standard, QIC-36 and QIC-02 are Hardware interface standards. You only need QIC-24 to exchange tapes) QIC-36 Systems (830, 831) are full length cards with both the host interface and the formatter on the PC card: __ _________________ +----------------------------| | __________ | | Formatter and Host Adapter |==============| | | | | |==============| +----------+ | | | |Tape Drive Unit| |_________________ _| | | ||||||||||| |---------------| QIC-02 (811-B) systems have the host adaptor as a half card, and the formatter is mounted on the drive unit: |---------------| +--------------| | __________ | | Host Adapter |==============| | | | | |==============| +----------+ | | | |Tape Drive Unit| |___ _| | and formatter | ||||||||||| |---------------| The cost for all three things is almost the same; the difference comes in when you wish to buy more than one. With QIC-36 you get an "expensive" card with a "low cost" drive. QIC-02 gives you "cheap" cards with an "expensive" drive. If you buy 10 cards and one drive to cart between systems, which would you buy? :-) John Plocher Microport Systems
cdold@starfish.Convergent.COM (Clarence Dold) (12/21/88)
From article <1516@bebux.UUCP>, by henk@bebux.UUCP (Henk Dijkstra): > I would like to purchase a tape-streamer however one of my wishes is > that it is compatible with "frequently" used tape-streamers on UNIX systems. > From what I hear that means I have to buy a "QIC-24" format compatible There are a few QIC numbers that you might need to know: QIC-02: The interface from the CPU or PC-BUS card toward the tape system. QIC-11: The Data format on a DC300 cartridge, yielding 4 track 20MB. QIC-24: The Data Format on a DC600A cartridge yielding 9 track 60MB. This is the most popular, but really comes in two flavors: Big-endian, and little-endian. For instance, NCR Tower uses little endian, and Convergent S/640 uses big-endian, so that dd conv=swap is needed to transport cpio files. QIC-36: On the earlier decks, there were separate controller and deck logic boards. QIC-36 was the interface between the two, and can generally be disregarded, since add-on tape systems won't be divided here. QIC-120: Data format on a DC600A cartridge yielding 15 tracks 125MB. QIC-150: Data format on a DC600XTD cartridge yielding 18 tracks 150MB. In the Archive series of drives, the SCORPION series is available as 20MB, or 60MB. The 60MB can read 20 MB tapes in the QIC-02 based drives, but the SCSI interface drive gives up the 20MB ability. I am not sure about writing 20 MB on the QIC-02 based version. The VIPER series will read a 60MB, 120MB or 150MB tape. The 150MB VIPER will write 150MB, 18 tracks, if it detects a DC600XTD cartridge; and will write 125MB, 15 tracks, if it detects a DC600A cartridge. It cannot write a 60MB tape. The tape speed on the 60MB and higher tapes is 90IPS, yielding about 90KB/S transfer rate, if you can keep the tape streaming, which requires either double threaded bufferring, or at least very large buffers. -- Clarence A Dold - cdold@starfish.Convergent.COM (408) 434-2083 ...pyramid!ctnews!professo!dold MailStop 18-011 P.O.Box 6685, San Jose, CA 95150-6685
dar@belltec.UUCP (Dimitri Rotow) (12/23/88)
In article <895@starfish.Convergent.COM>, cdold@starfish.Convergent.COM (Clarence Dold) writes: > From article <1516@bebux.UUCP>, by henk@bebux.UUCP (Henk Dijkstra): > > I would like to purchase a tape-streamer however one of my wishes is > > that it is compatible with "frequently" used tape-streamers on UNIX systems. > > From what I hear that means I have to buy a "QIC-24" format compatible > One of the points Clarence makes needs clarification. There are two tape interface standards commonly used between PC boards and tape mechanisms. The QIC-36 interface is really a command interface whereas the QIC-02 interface is more of a bus adaptor spec. That's why QIC-36 cards are typically "long" format cards, because they contain the formatter/command electronics, while QIC-02 cards (being mere bus adaptors) tend to be short cards. Almost all streamers use the QIC-36 command interface. The original QIC-36 card was designed by Northern Telecom and put into mass production by Everex in their EV series. Since then, numerous third parties (Wangtek, etc) are building "PC36" compatible streamer tape controllers. The tape software most vendors use will work with all such cards (keeping in mind that any given driver is always vulnerable to changes in ROMs, PALS, and other individual design changes). In recent years tape electronics have advanced to the point that much of the formatting/command electronics can be integrated onto the tape mechanism's own circuit board. Thus the QIC-36 command interface can be buried inside the tape unit itself, allowing it to communicate to the host system via a QIC-02 bus adaptor. In a correctly implemented QIC-02/Tape system, the board/drive will look exactly the same to the device driver. Thus only one set of Bell Tech drivers is used for all Bell Tech tape devices, regardless of their size or whether the particular adaptor card plugged into the AT is a QIC-36 unit or a QIC-02. Again, keep in mind that any particular installation is vulnerable to version skew. For example, the PC36 style controllers (because some command intelligence and information is on the PC card) need to have their on-board firmware match the size of the tape, be it 60, 125, or 150 MB. One nice thing about QIC-02 is that since all of the implementation of the QIC-36 command interface is buried inside the drive, any correclty implemented QIC-02 controller will work with a QIC-02 interface tape mechanism, regardless of the tape unit's size, without need for firm ware changes on the controller. - dimitri rotow PS - My only regret is that Wangtek doesn't make their 60 MB unit as a QIC-02. Nice line of drives, but I wish we could source them all as QIC-02's and be done with the "long card" controllers.
wnp@dcs.UUCP (Wolf N. Paul) (12/23/88)
In article <314@belltec.UUCP> dar@belltec.UUCP (Dimitri Rotow) writes: >Almost all streamers use the QIC-36 command interface. The original QIC-36 >card was designed by Northern Telecom and put into mass production by Everex >in their EV series. Since then, numerous third parties (Wangtek, etc) are >building "PC36" compatible streamer tape controllers. The tape software >most vendors use will work with all such cards (keeping in mind that any >given driver is always vulnerable to changes in ROMs, PALS, and other >individual design changes). Would you care to comment on the REASON for the change of PALS on the Bell Tech- supplied EV-811-B controller, which in effect makes the use of Bell Tech's System V/AT tape driver impossible with a non-Bell Tech EV-811-B? >- dimitri rotow > >PS - My only regret is that Wangtek doesn't make their 60 MB unit as >a QIC-02. Nice line of drives, but I wish we could source them all >as QIC-02's and be done with the "long card" controllers. Kennedy makes a QIC-02 version of their 6500 series drives. -- Wolf N. Paul * 3387 Sam Rayburn Run * Carrollton TX 75007 * (214) 306-9101 UUCP: killer!dcs!wnp ESL: 62832882 DOMAIN: dcs!wnp@killer.dallas.tx.us TLX: 910-380-0585 EES PLANO UD
samperi@marob.MASA.COM (Dominick Samperi) (12/24/88)
In article <314@belltec.UUCP> dar@belltec.UUCP (Dimitri Rotow) writes: >One of the points Clarence makes needs clarification. There are two tape >interface standards commonly used between PC boards and tape mechanisms. The >QIC-36 interface is really a command interface whereas the QIC-02 interface >is more of a bus adaptor spec. That's why QIC-36 cards are typically "long" >format cards, because they contain the formatter/command electronics, while >QIC-02 cards (being mere bus adaptors) tend to be short cards. Hmmm, does this mean, for example, that an Everex EV-36 controller can be used with an Archive FT60 tape drive, since Archive describes the interface used for this drive as a QIC-36 interface? And is it also true that the Everex EV-02 controller will work with any drive that uses the QIC-02 interface, like the Archive VP series, or a similar Bell Tech drive? More generally, how interchangeable are various vendor's streamer controllers and drives? Is it possible to write software that will work with many different controllers/drives? -- Dominick Samperi, NYC samperi@acf8.NYU.EDU samperi@marob.MASA.COM cmcl2!phri!marob uunet!hombre!samperi (^ ell)
sl@van-bc.UUCP (pri=-10 Stuart Lynne) (12/24/88)
In article <430@marob.MASA.COM> samperi@marob.masa.com (Dominick Samperi) writes: >Hmmm, does this mean, for example, that an Everex EV-36 controller can be >used with an Archive FT60 tape drive, since Archive describes the interface >used for this drive as a QIC-36 interface? And is it also true that the >Everex EV-02 controller will work with any drive that uses the QIC-02 >interface, like the Archive VP series, or a similar Bell Tech drive? >More generally, how interchangeable are various vendor's streamer controllers >and drives? Is it possible to write software that will work with many >different controllers/drives? >-- I've had a Bell Tech External Cartridge for about a year and was quite disappointed with the performance (system hanging for seconds will tape doing things, low throughput, etc). Last Tuesday I picked up a box of odd's and ends at an auction which happened to include a couple of Achive 499-R controllers (the new short ones). Ah ha, I said to myself, wonder if this would cure my tape problems? So I borrowed a friends Archive tape system and played with various combo's for a few days (this is under SCO Xenix). The end result's: - short Archive controller needs Xenix 2.3 - Bell Tech (Everex?) type controller will work with SCO if drive is re-jumpered from #3 to #1 - Archive controller will work fine with drive supplied by BTI (Wangtek) - on the 20Mhz 386 I playing on there was no significant difference in performance for the Archive or BTI controllers using SCO Drivers The bottom line - I'm continuing to use the Bell Tech Controller simply because to use the Archive Controller would require using 50 pin ribbon cable, or getting a special cable made to match the DB25 on their end with the DB?? that Bell Tech uses. But when I get a tower I'll move the cartridge inside and use the Archive 499R controller because it has a header and my Bell Tech card doesn't. -- Stuart.Lynne@wimsey.bc.ca {ubc-cs,uunet}!van-bc!sl Vancouver,BC,604-937-7532
root@conexch.UUCP (Larry Dighera) (12/28/88)
In article <1516@bebux.UUCP> henk@bebux.UUCP (Henk Dijkstra) writes: >I've just received the new documentation for the Microport R3V3.0e release >which states there is now support for the Everex 830,833 and 811-B controllers. >I would like to purchase a tape-streamer however one of my wishes is >that it is compatible with "frequently" used tape-streamers on UNIX systems. >From what I hear that means I have to buy a "QIC-24" format compatible >cartridge tape-streamer. My problem is (since no one here in Holland can >sell an Everex tapestreamer "off the shelf") I have not any clue in what >all those controller numbers mean. Is there anybody willing to help me out? >So I end up with an UNIX compatible tapestreamer i.o. some MSDOS device. > >Please help me! >-- >Henk Dijkstra : BETRONIC B.V. USENET : henk@bebux.UUCP > : PO-box 4317 ..!hp4nl!bebux!henk > : 1009 AH AMSTERDAM, NL VOICE : (+31) 20 6652251 >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The tape backup system I market is Archive's "FasTape". This is an external system mounted in a stand-alone cabinet with its own power supply so, it won't over burden your AT's internal power supply. It uses DC-600A 1/4" cartridges with 60 MB capacity, and is FCC, UL, and CSA approved for 115VAC or 230VAC operation. A full length 8 bit expansion slot is required for the controller card. It is capable of operation under PC-DOS as well as Xenix/UNIX and provides you with 60MB of tape storage per cartridge. This is a US built tape system; it is very reliable with a MTBF of >5,000 hours of use. The tapes produced are industry standard QIC-24 recording format employing 9 track serpentine recording at 8,000 BPI, 10,000 FRPI, on ANSI Standard X3.55 - 1982 600 foot media (DC600A). So, you can write tapes on your Xenix/UNIX system and read them on your Sun (if you want to) or vice versa. You can write multiple volumes to a cartridge tape which is a very handy feature. There is no need for time consuming formatting of the tape cartridges; this tape system formats on the fly. This tape system is very rugged and professionally implemented; suggested retail price is $1095.00, but I give fellow Xenix/UNIX users a great deal on this tape system at $695. That includes the Tape drive, controller card, cable, and PC-DOS program. SCO Xenix has driver support for this tape system included in its distribution. All you have to do is configure the base-address, DMA channel, and interrupt, then enter the mkdev tape command and follow the prompts. Within a few minutes the new driver is linked into your kernel, and you can backup your hard drives painlessly. Backups are easily administrated via the SCO sysadmin menuing system, and at 90Kbytes/Sec they proceed briskly. To place your order, give me a call at (714) 842-2862 during business hours, or send your order to: Dighera Data Services Box 12100 Santa Ana, CA 92712 Prepaid orders are shipped free; COD orders please add $15. California residents please add sales tax. International orders are a specialty. Sincerely, Larry Dighera President -- USPS: The Consultants' Exchange, PO Box 12100, Santa Ana, CA 92712 TELE: (714) 842-6348: BBS (N81); (714) 842-5851: Xenix guest account (E71) UUCP: conexch Any ACU 2400 17148425851 ogin:-""-ogin:-""-ogin: nuucp UUCP: ...!uunet!turnkey!conexch!root || ...!trwrb!ucla-an!conexch!root
jbayer@ispi.UUCP (Jonathan Bayer) (12/29/88)
In article <271@dcs.UUCP>, wnp@dcs.UUCP (Wolf N. Paul) writes: > In article <314@belltec.UUCP> dar@belltec.UUCP (Dimitri Rotow) writes: > >Almost all streamers use the QIC-36 command interface. The original QIC-36 > >card was designed by Northern Telecom and put into mass production by Everex > >in their EV series. Since then, numerous third parties (Wangtek, etc) are > >building "PC36" compatible streamer tape controllers. The tape software > >most vendors use will work with all such cards (keeping in mind that any > >given driver is always vulnerable to changes in ROMs, PALS, and other > >individual design changes). > > Would you care to comment on the REASON for the change of PALS on the Bell Tech- > supplied EV-811-B controller, which in effect makes the use of Bell Tech's > System V/AT tape driver impossible with a non-Bell Tech EV-811-B? > Unfortunately, Bell Technologies is practicing copy protection on Unix/Xenix. By changing the PALS they ensure that only their software will work with their board, and that their board will only work with their software. I found this out the hard way after SCO came out with direct support of the QIC-36 boards. I now have a customer who is stuck with the Bell stuff, and for obvious reasons does not want to upgrade the hardware. BTW, Bell does have a very good streaming mode. Depending on the software they can stream several megs of data all at the same time, while SCO can only stream 20 to 40 K at one time. However, I don't know how much of a speed increase it results in. Jonathan Bayer ------------------------------------ Intelligent Software Products, Inc. "The time has come," the Walrus said... 19 Virginia Ave. ------------------------------------ Rockville Centre, NY 11570 (516) 766-2867
clewis@ecicrl.UUCP (Chris Lewis) (12/31/88)
In article <379@ispi.UUCP> jbayer@ispi.UUCP (Jonathan Bayer) writes: >BTW, Bell does have a very good streaming mode. Depending on the >software they can stream several megs of data all at the same time, >while SCO can only stream 20 to 40 K at one time. However, I don't know >how much of a speed increase it results in. In the version of BT's drivers I saw (about 10 months ago), their "streaming" mode consisted of a *user* program that used a large buffer in a pipeline between tar/cpio/dump and the special device. The "large" buffer was 3Mb (!) by default. In a word - whoopie.... I tried to convince ISC to write their own drivers instead - *anybody* could do better than the wt driver was like, but they didn't until very recently - the new ones appear to be worse. Wonderful.... On 386/ix or BT or Microport or AT&T you can use dd with 1-3Mb buffers for exactly the same effect. In SCO the max buffer size for dd is only around 32K, so you'd be best off writing your own: #define MAX (1024*1024) /* big...*/ main() { extern char *malloc(); int n; char *buffer = malloc(MAX); while((n = read(0, buffer, MAX)) > 0) write(1, buffer, n); } Error checking is left as an exercise for the reader.... What I would be really impressed with is someone who wrote a tape driver that actually had a chance to keep up all by itself. I have written a multi-process multi-buffer shared memory copy program, that can stream disk images from one end of the tape to the other without stopping, but I'll wait to see what Roe's looks like before posting anything. [I've got a partially working buffered streaming tape driver - I'll let you all know whether I impress myself or not...] -- Chris Lewis, Markham, Ontario, Canada {uunet!attcan,utgpu,yunexus,utzoo}!lsuc!ecicrl!clewis Ferret Mailing list: ...!lsuc!gate!eci386!ferret-request (or lsuc!gate!eci386!clewis or lsuc!clewis)
dar@belltec.UUCP (Dimitri Rotow) (01/03/89)
In article <271@dcs.UUCP>, wnp@dcs.UUCP (Wolf N. Paul) writes: > Would you care to comment on the REASON for the change of PALS on the Bell Tech- > supplied EV-811-B controller, which in effect makes the use of Bell Tech's > System V/AT tape driver impossible with a non-Bell Tech EV-811-B? > You bet! Bell started shipping tape drives at a time when there were 15 or 20 different implementations of QIC-36 tape drives. The initial PAL was used simply for version control and host board identification. We keep using it because we read Usenet and don't want to get involved supporting other people's tape controllers and tape hardware. Sure, in theory you can whack together just about any QIC-36/QIC-02 generic controller and tape mechanism and expect it to go, but (as readers of this and the comp.unix.xenix group know) it just doesn't work that way in practise. Our own line of integrated controllers, tapes and software provides special value which we intend to keep selling for our benefit. As it so happens, we *do* sell a commodity tape interface that works on almost anybody's controller/driver pair ... that's the "qt" (for Qic Tape) streamer driver that's part of our UNIX System V/386 Release 3.2 distribution. You get that driver free as part of the standard release. If you buy a Bell Tech streamer tape, you get our tape stuff free as well. The Bell tape software streams a heck of a lot better than the AT&T stuff. One reason is that it is precisely integrated with a specific family of controllers and tape mechanisms. You pays your money and you takes your choice. Note, by the way, that your posting makes an inaccurate assumption in that you imply that there is only one EV-811-B controller, when in fact their are very many different revs of that controller boards that ship under the very same or similar part numbers. This is not a criticism of the EV product, just a note on the hidden dimension of version skew. One of the ways we've been forced into dealing with version skew is to start fabbing our own QIC-02 series tape controllers. This assures us that our customers will not be hurt by hardware version skew. Wangtek, by the way, is also fabbing their own EV series controllers as well. - dimitri rotow
dar@belltec.UUCP (Dimitri Rotow) (01/03/89)
In article <379@ispi.UUCP>, jbayer@ispi.UUCP (Jonathan Bayer) writes: [Quotations about Bell copy protection deleted] > Unfortunately, Bell Technologies is practicing copy protection on > Unix/Xenix. By changing the PALS they ensure that only their software > will work with their board, and that their board will only work with > their software. I found this out the hard way after SCO came out with > direct support of the QIC-36 boards. I now have a customer who is stuck > Not so! the PAL locks no one out ... you can run SCO just fine with our boards using the built-in SCO drivers. Just make sure to set the interrupts, etc, correctly. Note that SCO itself quotes Bell Tech boards as supported streamer tape plug ins in the SCO documentation. - dimitri rotow
sl@van-bc.UUCP (pri=-10 Stuart Lynne) (01/08/89)
>Not so! the PAL locks no one out ... you can run SCO just fine with our >boards using the built-in SCO drivers. Just make sure to set the interrupts, >etc, correctly. Note that SCO itself quotes Bell Tech boards as supported >streamer tape plug ins in the SCO documentation. > >- dimitri rotow Believe the man. It works fine with SCO built in drivers. I'm using an XTC external with SCO 2.3, using SCO's drivers. You may have to re-address the drive. Takes about 2 minutes. I've also used an Archive 499 type controller with the Bell Tech drive and SCO's drivers. Worked fine. There was no perceptible difference in speed between Bell Tech Controller and driver; Archive Controller and Bell Tech drive; and Archive Controller with Archive drive when all where used with SCO's drivers. They were all *very* fast. (For those who need to know, Bell Techs drive - at least in the box I have - is a Wangtec. Archive's was a Sidewinder I believe.) The only annoyance I have with the Bell Tech card is that it doesn't have an internal cable header, so I can't use it with an internal drive. -- Stuart.Lynne@wimsey.bc.ca {ubc-cs,uunet}!van-bc!sl Vancouver,BC,604-937-7532