corbin@encore.UUCP (02/04/88)
I am a novice with fish and need some help. I have a 20 gallon tank
with basic tropical fish: angels, swords, tetras, zebras, algae eaters
and a catfish.
The problem is with maintaining the PH levels. We have a private well
with pretty awful water: ph 5.6 and 18-20ppm iron (basically mud). Our
filter system pushes the PH to 8.5+ to remove the iron. The PH is raised
by injecting potash into the incoming water before it reaches the filter.
The potash is so strong that the PH adjustment chemicals I get from the
local fish store have little effect. I use a whole container of sodium
biophosphate to get only a couple of gallons of water to 7.0. At $2.00
a can this is not very cost effective. I tried another type of chemical
I believe was called PH Plus. It was a liquid and it claims to set the PH
to 7.0 and maintain it there for some period of time. The owner of the
fish store I go to said that this was the best stuff available. Well,
I was only supposed to need a couple of drops per gallon of water to have
an effect. After 2 days of adding the required amount the PH did not move.
I finally dumped the whole bottle in and it had no effect. The PH stayed
at 8.5.
I can continue to use the sodium biosphate but each time I clean the tank
I use two containers fo the stuff. This really is a little too expensive
for me.
Any suggestions? Maybe a source for an industrial size container of sodium
biosphate or equivalent?
Steve Corbin
{ihnp4, allegra, linus, decvax} ! encore ! corbin
--
Stephen Corbin
{ihnp4, allegra, linus} ! encore ! corbinrichard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (02/04/88)
My water here is pH 8 point something.
Is this a problem ?
Do your fish exhibit signs of distress ?
Could you take 1 part untreated well water and mix it with 1 part
treated well water ?
Is there any pizza left ?
--
"I'm not going back to Woodstock for a while..."
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM
{ihnp4!scgvaxd!cadovax, philabs!cadovax, codas!ddsw1} gryphon!richardcorbin@encore.UUCP (02/05/88)
In article <2407@gryphon.CTS.COM> richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) writes: > >My water here is pH 8 point something. > >Is this a problem ? > >Do your fish exhibit signs of distress ? I am a novice at this stuff and am not sure I can tell if the fish are distressed. At high PH they were just floating around lazily. Not as active as I believe they are supposed to be. I also had an ammonia problem which might have been the cause of any ill health. My question is: will high PH encourage ammonia or algae buildup? > >Could you take 1 part untreated well water and mix it with 1 part >treated well water ? I could but I was told that the high iron and mineral content of our water will kill the fish. Before putting in our water filter our tank water was always yellowish brown due to the iron. We lost a lot of fish because of my inablility to keep the tank clean. I would change 20-30% of the water each WEEK and still couldn't keep the algae and ammonia from building up. The well water also has a high manganese and tannin content. Will this be all right for the fish? > >Is there any pizza left ? One piece. It's two weeks old. Guess I should toss it out now. > >-- > "I'm not going back to Woodstock for a while..." > richard@gryphon.CTS.COM > {ihnp4!scgvaxd!cadovax, philabs!cadovax, codas!ddsw1} gryphon!richard Again, I'm a rank amateur here and almost sorry I got into this. -- Stephen Corbin {ihnp4, allegra, linus} ! encore ! corbin
boreas@bucsb.UUCP (The Cute Cuddle Creature) (02/06/88)
In article <2610@encore.UUCP> corbin@encore.UUCP writes: [about a *bad* water problem with pH and iron and potash and so on] >I can continue to use the sodium biosphate but each time I clean the tank >I use two containers fo the stuff. This really is a little too expensive >for me. > >Any suggestions? Maybe a source for an industrial size container of sodium >biosphate or equivalent? > >Steve Corbin >{ihnp4, allegra, linus, decvax} ! encore ! corbin Well, Boston water is pretty terrible too (though nowhere near as bad as yours, from the sound of it!); I've been thinking about using bottled water if/when I set one up (have to ask the landlord). Does anyone know of any problems with this? (The store across the street sells water for $0.50 per gallon, so the price is considerably less than a can of sodium biophosphate! And it's probably better for the fish, too.) The graphics lab here did this, and their fish seem to be doing fine. . . . -- Michael. -- BITNet: ccmaj@bostonu \ Michael Justice, the Cute Cuddle Creature @ The Zoo ARPA: boreas@bucsb.bu.edu \ "Lord, give me my health, my strength, a hoe and a CSNET: boreas%bucsb@bu-cs \ place to dig. I'll do the rest." -- Mrs. Banks. UUCP:...!husc6!bu-cs!bucsb!boreas \ "Space: the final front." -- R. Reagan.
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (02/08/88)
In article <2627@encore.UUCP> corbin@encore.UUCP (Steve Corbin) writes: >In article <2407@gryphon.CTS.COM> richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) writes: >> >>My water here is pH 8 point something. >> >>Is this a problem ? >> >>Do your fish exhibit signs of distress ? > >I am a novice at this stuff and am not sure I can tell if the fish are >distressed. At high PH they were just floating around lazily. Not as >active as I believe they are supposed to be. I also had an ammonia problem >which might have been the cause of any ill health. My question is: will >high PH encourage ammonia or algae buildup? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ No, it wont. T reduce your pH, get some "peat fibres" and filter your water over that. No guarentees, but it may work. Also, find some ceder or cypress root and put that in the tank, that should lower the pH. >Again, I'm a rank amateur here and almost sorry I got into this. Hang in there. -- "It's too dark to put my legs in my munitions" richard@gryphon.CTS.COM {ihnp4!scgvaxd!cadovax, philabs!cadovax, codas!ddsw1} gryphon!richard
Ram-Ashwin@cs.yale.edu (Ashwin Ram) (02/08/88)
In article <2610@encore.UUCP>, corbin@encore writes: > The problem is with maintaining the PH levels. We have a private well > with pretty awful water: ph 5.6 and 18-20ppm iron (basically mud). > [...] > I can continue to use the sodium biosphate but each time I clean the tank > I use two containers fo the stuff. This really is a little too expensive > for me. > > Any suggestions? Maybe a source for an industrial size container of sodium > biosphate or equivalent? It'll probably be cheaper for you to use distilled water or bottled water from a grocery store. It's good for the fish too. -- Ashwin Ram -- ARPA: Ram-Ashwin@cs.yale.edu UUCP: {decvax,ucbvax,harvard,cmcl2,...}!yale!Ram-Ashwin BITNET: Ram@yalecs
dalka@ihlpg.ATT.COM (Ken Dalka) (02/08/88)
>My question is: will high PH encourage ammonia or algae buildup?
No. However High PH makes ammonia more deadly. That is, the same
ammonia concentration at higher PHs is more deadly to fish than
at lower PHs.
--
Ken Dalka (Bell Labs)
ihnp4!ihlpg!dalka
IE 2F-518 (312) 416-7437clewis@spectrix.UUCP (Chris R. Lewis) (02/12/88)
In article <2610@encore.UUCP> corbin@encore.UUCP writes: >with basic tropical fish: angels, swords, tetras, zebras, algae eaters >and a catfish. These according to my book all like neutral or slightly acidic. >The problem is with maintaining the PH levels. We have a private well >with pretty awful water: ph 5.6 and 18-20ppm iron (basically mud). Our >filter system pushes the PH to 8.5+ to remove the iron. The PH is raised >by injecting potash into the incoming water before it reaches the filter. >The potash is so strong that the PH adjustment chemicals I get from the >local fish store have little effect.... Is the potash and filter just for the aquarium or more general use? I wouldn't want to drink your pre *or* post-treated water! You could always try adding some muriatic acid.... ( 8^O, well, just fooling) What you could do to kill two birds with one stone so-to-speak is to get an in-line water distillation unit installed into your plumbing. I don't really know how expensive one of these things is, but if you use a holding tank, you could economize and get a very low volume one and use it both for the fish and your drinking water. You should be able to find out your options from a plumbing, drilling contractor or adverts in one of the "home" magazines. If my water was bad enough to throw caustic potash into it, I'm sure I'd rather drink distilled water. You'd also probably have to add some conditioners to the water for the fish because there'd be no chemicals in it - no buffering whatsoever - the PH could change really rapidly. One of those buffer blocks might do the trick. Sodium Bicarb is a buffer too isn't it? Or, buy distilled water instead (buffering still needed). "Bottled water" is quite possibly no good at all - it will have a lot of minerals too, and gawd knows what the PH is. (remembers me the US government's comment about Acid Rain - "It's no more acidic than Tomato sauce", to which the reply is "You only find dead fish in Tomato sauce" :-{) I seem to remember reading that people "live longer" with somewhat hard water. Yours seems a little extreme. Besides, that isn't be ideal for your fish. Or, you could switch to African Cichlids.... -- Chris Lewis, Spectrix Microsystems Inc, UUCP: {uunet!mnetor, utcsri!utzoo, lsuc, yunexus}!spectrix!clewis Phone: (416)-474-1955
Ram-Ashwin@cs.yale.edu (Ashwin Ram) (02/13/88)
In article <4767@ihlpg.ATT.COM>, dalka@ihlpg (Ken Dalka) writes: > >My question is: will high PH encourage ammonia or algae buildup? > > No. However High PH makes ammonia more deadly. That is, the same > ammonia concentration at higher PHs is more deadly to fish than > at lower PHs. Ken is right. Ammonia exists in water in two forms: as free ammonia (NH3), a gas that is highly soluble in water, and as ammonium ions (NH4+). When pH rises (more OH- ions), some of the ammonium ions get converted back into free ammonia (which doesn't escape because it's so soluble). Free ammonia gas dissolved in water is one of the surest ways of killing fish. NH4+ is bad too, but to a far lesser extent. This is why you can kill fish by raising the pH without increasing the "amount" of ammonia, since it's the free ammonia content that really counts. If your tap water is slightly alkaline, doing a partial water change in an acidic tank with too much ammonium in it can actually hurt. This is the reason behind the popular myth that you should save every bit of "old" water when you take it out to clean it, and then put it back in. If you have the ammonia buildup under control (as you should once the ecosystem is stable), there is of course no reason to do recycle old water. -- Ashwin Ram -- ARPA: Ram-Ashwin@cs.yale.edu UUCP: {decvax,ucbvax,harvard,cmcl2,...}!yale!Ram-Ashwin BITNET: Ram@yalecs