Ram-Ashwin@cs.yale.edu (Ashwin Ram) (02/16/88)
I have a 10-gallon freshwater tank. About a week ago, after I did a partial
water change, vacuuming up the gravel as I usually do, I noticed that there
were little white thingies floating in the tank. They were white, about 2-4
mm long and very thin, looking almost like hair. The fish were eating some
of them. They weren't moving, but to be on the safe side I put some
Promethysul (malachite green + sulpha + something else) in there.
A couple days ago, I did another partial water change and I noticed the same
thing. This time they were definitely ALIVE! They were squirming in
typical worm-like motions. The fish were eating them again. Within 15 or
20 minutes, all the fish were sick; they were drifting aimlessly near the
top of the tank, gasping for air. My neons died within the hour; an angel
died overnight. I put in another dose of Promethysul and raised the
temperature to 80 F. Thankfully, the rest of the fish survived.
I went to a pet store, and the guy there said it was Ich larvae that I'd
seen in the tank. But I was under the impression that Ich larvae are a lot
smaller than that. Anyone know what it was? Both times they appeared after
the water change (perhaps because I stirred up the gravel?)
Also, about the time they first appeared I'd gotten some live food (brine
shrimps) and some frozen bloodworms from the same pet store. Could these
things, whatever they are, have come from there? Is live food inherently
unsafe? What about frozen food?
Is there still a danger of further infestation? What should I do? Any
particular medicines? Should I take everything out and completely wash out
the gravel?
Any and all help welcome, and highly appreciated!
-- Ashwin Ram --
ARPA: Ram-Ashwin@cs.yale.edu
UUCP: {decvax,ucbvax,harvard,cmcl2,...}!yale!Ram-Ashwin
BITNET: Ram@yalecsrct@occrsh.ATT.COM (Bob_Tracy) (02/17/88)
In article <23207@yale-celray.yale.UUCP> Ram-Ashwin@cs.yale.edu (Ashwin Ram) writes: > > ... white thingies floating in the tank. They were white, about 2-4 >mm long and very thin, looking almost like hair. ... > > ... they were definitely ALIVE! ... squirming in typical worm-like >motions. The fish were eating them again. Within 15 or 20 minutes, all >the fish were sick; ... about the time they first appeared I'd gotten some >live food (brine shrimps) and some frozen bloodworms from the same pet store. Live food is a bummer unless your fish absolutely require it, and then one has to be extremely careful to monitor the tank for parasites and other undesirables that are introduced into the tank with the food. The same principle is at work when one introduces new fish into an established aquarium: normally, you want to quarantine the new specimens for a few days (weeks) in a separate tank (especially if you don't purchase from a reputable dealer) to give hidden nastiness a chance to show itself without endangering the rest of your setup. Worms of any kind (tubifex, bloodworms, etc.) are a no-no in my tank just because of all the nasty things I've read about that can infest your tank while trying to give your fish a treat :-(. Freeze-dried brine shrimp is about as risky as I get, and so far I seem to be getting away with it. Fortunately, my experience with the type of thing you've encountered is limited to what I've read because I was forewarned about the risks of using certain kinds of food. Sorry that I can't recommend a specific treatment other than prevention. I'm betting that the more knowledgeable readers of this newsgroup will be able to come up with something to help you. --Bob Tracy {most AT&T sites}!occrsh!rct rct@occrsh.att.com
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (02/17/88)
In article <23207@yale-celray.yale.UUCP> Ram-Ashwin@cs.yale.edu (Ashwin Ram) writes: > >I have a 10-gallon freshwater tank. About a week ago, after I did a partial >water change, vacuuming up the gravel as I usually do, I noticed that there >were little white thingies floating in the tank. They were white, about 2-4 >mm long and very thin, looking almost like hair. The fish were eating some >of them. They weren't moving, but to be on the safe side I put some >Promethysul (malachite green + sulpha + something else) in there. > >A couple days ago, I did another partial water change and I noticed the same >thing. This time they were definitely ALIVE! They were squirming in >typical worm-like motions. The fish were eating them again. Within 15 or >20 minutes, all the fish were sick; they were drifting aimlessly near the >top of the tank, gasping for air. My neons died within the hour; an angel >died overnight. I put in another dose of Promethysul and raised the >temperature to 80 F. Thankfully, the rest of the fish survived. > >I went to a pet store, and the guy there said it was Ich larvae that I'd >seen in the tank. But I was under the impression that Ich larvae are a lot >smaller than that. Anyone know what it was? Both times they appeared after >the water change (perhaps because I stirred up the gravel?) > >Also, about the time they first appeared I'd gotten some live food (brine >shrimps) and some frozen bloodworms from the same pet store. Could these >things, whatever they are, have come from there? Is live food inherently >unsafe? What about frozen food? > >Is there still a danger of further infestation? What should I do? Any >particular medicines? Should I take everything out and completely wash out >the gravel? > Hmm. I remember once I had my first two glass catfish. They died. I was so pissed I just let the indignant swine rot in their 5 gal. tank. After about a month they were gone, but there were these little wiggly things, about 2-4 mm long. I fed only dried food in those days, but one of the dried foods was freeze dried tubifex. No, its, not ick ("white spot"). Those little buggers are really small. It's not Ichthyosporidium, thats a fungal disease. It's not Ichthyophthirius, they are 1 mm max, and are not worm shaped. It's not a planarian, they arn't free swimming. I can't find flukes in the book, but I'm pretty sure that are real small too. It suddenly occurs to me I don't know what the hell they are. I guess you have two choices. 1) Look at them under a microscope, take some photos, have them identified. 2) Screw it. Fish are cheap, so is medication. I would probably quarantine fish after an incident like this, in a naked tank, with some copper or formalin. Where did they come from ? Bought any plants lately ? They, in all likelyhood cannot have come from brine shrimp as marine parasites don't fare too well in freshwater. But the plants are suspect. It *is* possible thay came in on frozen food. One of the better foods for very young fish is microworms, which you culture on oatmeal. These cultures only last a week. So you have to keep making new ones. Well it turns out that you can freeze them, and they do just fine. I'm not certain that any parasite could survive freeze drying, but it wouldn't surprise me. I've used frozen bloodworms with no problems. I have trouble with live tubifex. Fish always seem to get "the crud" after I use them. -- "My life is changing in so many ways, I don't know who to trust any more" richard@gryphon.CTS.COM {ihnp4!scgvaxd!cadovax, rutgers!marque, codas!ddsw1} gryphon!richard
dalka@ihlpg.ATT.COM (Ken Dalka) (02/18/88)
> About a week ago, after I did a partial > water change, vacuuming up the gravel as I usually do, I noticed that there > were little white thingies floating in the tank. They were white, about 2-4 > mm long and very thin, looking almost like hair. The fish were eating some > of them. I had some things in my tank a few months ago that sound the same. I asked the pet shop about them and they said they were nematodes (They didn't tell me how to spell it so I'm guessing) They said the nematodes were harmless and that they are good for the fish to eat. I never had any problems with disease either before or after I noticed them so I assumed that the pet shop was right. They also said they didn't really know what causes them to show up, they just kinda happen sometimes. -- Ken Dalka (Bell Labs) ihnp4!ihlpg!dalka IE 2F-518 (312) 416-7437
dalka@ihlpg.ATT.COM (Ken Dalka) (02/18/88)
> Live food is a bummer unless your fish absolutely require it, and then > one has to be extremely careful to monitor the tank for parasites and > other undesirables that are introduced into the tank with the food. This is an interesting point that it might be good to hear peoples opinions about. I used to use live food and had an outbreak of some type of bacterial disease. Since that time, I've refused to use any live food in my tanks. I use quite a bit of frozen food, especially for the salt water fish and have never had a problem with disease since. The types I use are brine shimp, glassworms, bloodworms (these smell really bad so I don't use them anymore to save my nose), prime reef, formula I and II, krill and some special invertebrate mixture. I don't use them all at the same time, and I don't even keep them all at the same time, I vary what I buy from time to time. Anybody, want to tout the pros of live food? One possibility of live food that I have considered but not done is to keep a few guppies in with some of the more difficult to keep fish. It sounds terrible but the constant influx of young from the guppies could keep the other fish happy. -- Ken Dalka (Bell Labs) ihnp4!ihlpg!dalka IE 2F-518 (312) 416-7437
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (02/19/88)
In article <4865@ihlpg.ATT.COM> dalka@ihlpg.ATT.COM (Ken Dalka) writes: > >This is an interesting point that it might be good to hear peoples >opinions about. I used to use live food and had an outbreak of some >type of bacterial disease. Worms, I'll bet. >Since that time, I've refused to use any >live food in my tanks. I use quite a bit of frozen food, especially >for the salt water fish and have never had a problem with disease >since. The types I use are brine shimp, glassworms, bloodworms (these >smell really bad so I don't use them anymore to save my nose), Too bad. They have the highest nutritional content. >prime >reef, formula I and II, krill and some special invertebrate mixture. >I don't use them all at the same time, and I don't even keep them all >at the same time, I vary what I buy from time to time. Anybody, want >to tout the pros of live food? > Well, you're missing the obvious: cultured live food. White worms, vineger eels, fruit flies, microworms (for fry), daphnia and if you're really a masochist, brine shrimp. The pros of live food ? Fish are mush more willing to accept live food than any other. Because of that, there is rarely any left sitting on the bottom to rot. Fish seem to grow better ans spawn more readily on a live food diet. Another often overlooked food is earthworms. The large ones you get from bait stores (african nightcrawlers) are fine for BIG fish, while smalled ones can be found in your backyard by diging up a few shovels of dirt. Then can be chopped into 2-5 mm segments for smaller fish and it's pretty amazing how much fish like them. The problems with live food are 1) bacteria/fungal 2) parasites 3) big things You can avoid 1) by never feeding tubifex. I've had nothing bad bad news with those things, although some people report success. 2) Not much you can do about that. 3) These are things like dragonfly larvae and the like, just scoop them out. Live foods I've collected and had no problems with: fairy shrimp, daphnia, glassworms, although the season is pretty short, they do freeze well. Ones that I've cultured: white worms, microworms, daphnia and some limited success with brine shrimp. -- "Each morning when I wake up to rise, I'm living in a dreamland" richard@gryphon.CTS.COM {ihnp4!scgvaxd!cadovax, rutgers!marque, codas!ddsw1} gryphon!richard