gary@grc.UUCP (Gary Sutcliffe) (05/03/88)
The saucer shaped part of clay flower pots that holds excess water works
very well for potting aquatic plants. It is rather shallow, so it does not
stick above the gravel, but has room for the roots to spread out. I also
have an Amazon Sword plant that is doing very well in a cut down cottage
cheese container.
I usually put about 1/4 to 1/2 inch garden soil (mine is mostly clay)
in the bottom of the pot. The rest is gravel.
With all the talk about UG filters being bad or indifferent to plants,
has anyone done or known of an experiment where one half of the tank had
an UG filter and the rest was just gravel? It would be nice to see a more
controlled experiment than someone's word that the plants died in his tank
with an UG but were fine in the other.
--
Gary Sutcliffe W9XT (414) 644-8700
GENROCO, Inc. Slinger, Wis.
{ames, rutgers, harvard} uwvax!uwmcsd1!grc!gary
Disclaimer (data compressed): "f+)Je\ ^_RMv9h|O |j8gELc=tAYw$pfs!1"gringort@decwrl.dec.com (Joel Gringorten) (05/03/88)
In article <3020@leo.UUCP> harald@leo.UUCP ( Harald Milne) writes: > > I have caulerpa, and I certainly don't worry about nutrition. As far as >I know, caulerpa thrives off nitrates and light. Since you always have nitrates >at some level, this isn't a problem. I do have very STRONG lighting. > [description of elaborate lighting system removed - for space] > That's 120 watts total. > I have 240 watts of light in a 100 gallon tank. This includes 80 watts of Actinic Blue bulbs. > I remove caulerpa by the pounds every week! It grows like hell under >these lighting conditions. Yeah, me too. But keep reading... > BTW, I had a near tank disaster with a strain of caulerpa that looks >like a fern plant. (The leaves). Under certain conditions, this kind of >caulerpa goes into "algea bloom". The entire chain turns a translucent white >and dies. The tank turns into greenish color, and is severely polluted. I >doubt an undergravel filtration system would have the capacity to handle this >level of pollution. Just a warning. > Yup, I had the same experience with that same type of caulerpa. Fortunately, I have a high capacity filtration system, and my tank water never got polluted. What I'm trying to determine is what the "certain conditions" are that cause massive die-offs of caulerpa. My theory is that a heavy growth of a strain of caulerpa, depletes the supply of whatever it is that they thrive on. When the nutrients get exausted, the caulerpa dies. One solution might be to keep it pruned back to a reasonable level. This will also prevenet a massive tank pollution should the stuff decide to croak one day. My system has a very light fish load, and my nitrate levels are immeassurably low. Hence my experimentation with the algae suppliments. Since my "Fern" caulpera croaked, I've been keeping only a type of caulerpa that has leaves like pine needles. It's doing well, and when it dies, it seem to decay at a slower rate than the fern. Anybody know the correct names for these caulerpas? -- -joel
dalka@ihlpg.ATT.COM (Ken Dalka) (05/03/88)
> Since my "Fern" caulpera croaked, I've been keeping only a type of > caulerpa that has leaves like pine needles. It's doing well, and > when it dies, it seem to decay at a slower rate than the fern. > > Anybody know the correct names for these caulerpas? I have one called "sea grapes". It has little pods on it. Well sort of.... I also call the one you have ferns. Ive also have one with very long big leaves and thin tough strands that hold it together. (I call it the one with the big leaves.) Anyway......what I really was getting at was that I've been told that all caulerpas have a limited life span. They grow for a while producing "seeds" and then die. The idea being that the seeds will take over after the plant is gone. However, these seeds don't really do well in an aquarium, so you end up with nothing. I have no first hand experience with this only the statement made by a trusted pet shop owner. I've had problems with my caulerpa dying but I think its because it eventually gets engulfed by stray algae. (That ugly green stuff that you have to scrap off the glass every couple of weeks.) Anybody know how to control this stuff? -- Ken Dalka (Bell Labs) ihnp4!ihlpg!dalka IE 2F-518 (312) 416-7437
vanpelt@unisv.UUCP (Mike Van Pelt) (05/04/88)
In article <3599@gryphon.CTS.COM> richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) writes: >What plants have you tried and failed at ? A lot of the really >decorative plants pet shops sell are not aquatic plants at all, >but rather emersed plants that will turn brown and rot in < a fe >months. Anacharis, hornwort, cane plants, those hairy bulb things, (Truely awful; they sprout a few long stalks with a little leaf at the top of the water, then die.) several kinds of grass that would allegedly carpet the whole bottom of the tank. I have tried corkscrew vallisneria and the straight kind, but that was some time ago; I can give it another try. I have not tried java fern. I've never heard of it before, but I'll see if I can find a place that carries it. Do you have this success with an undergravel filter? -- Mike Van Pelt Unisys, Silicon Valley vanpelt@unisv.UUCP Bring back UNIVAC! ...uunet!ubvax!unisv!vanpelt
vanpelt@unisv.UUCP (Mike Van Pelt) (05/04/88)
In article <28007@yale-celray.yale.UUCP> Ram-Ashwin@cs.yale.edu (Ashwin Ram) writes: >- Try plant plugs or peat pots. I have. Didn't seem to help. > >- If there is copper in your tank (most medications have copper), it's bye-bye >plants. I quit using copper after someone in a fish store told me about how clown loaches will rid a tank of snails in nothing flat. That was a number or water changes ago. (Boy, those clown loaches go through snails like Sherman through Georgia!) Come to think of it, though, my last attempt at pots & peat plugs may have been while I was dumping enough copper in the tank to turn the fish green in an (entirely futile) attempt to control the snails. > >- Do you have enough gravel? You need at least 2-3 inches of gravel for >rooted plants; 4-6 inches is even better. > I've got about 4-5 inches of gravel. One thing that might be relevant -- San Jose has extremely hard, alkaline water. I'm using phosphoric acid to neutralize it (the heck with those little bottles of 30% stuff you get at pet stores; I got a bottle of 90% at a chemical supply house. I've used about half of it.) which should also be good for the plants. A friend of mine once told me that he preferred to use hydrochloric (VERY carefully, and let the water stand for a couple of days) to get it near pH 7 then fine-tune with phosphoric. Any ideas here? Should plants have soft water? -- Mike Van Pelt Unisys, Silicon Valley vanpelt@unisv.UUCP Bring back UNIVAC! ...uunet!ubvax!unisv!vanpelt
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (05/05/88)
In article <332@unisv.UUCP> vanpelt@unisv.UUCP (Mike Van Pelt) writes: >I wrote: >>What plants have you tried and failed at ? >Anacharis, hornwort, cane plants, those hairy bulb things, (Truely awful; >they sprout a few long stalks with a little leaf at the top of the water, >then die.) several kinds of grass that would allegedly carpet the whole >bottom of the tank. I have tried corkscrew vallisneria and the straight >kind, but that was some time ago; I can give it another try. I have not >tried java fern. I've never heard of it before, but I'll see if I can >find a place that carries it. Hmm, I had real good luck with hornwort in canada, but not here, and the water (liquid rock) is the same. It seems to like it cool though. Anacharis definitly likes it cold (64 D Farenheit). Not sure what a cane plant of a hariy bulb thing is. Java fern can be hard to find, its a bit slow, but eventually it just takes over. Same with val. The secret seems to be enough light and DONT DISTURB THEM. >Do you have this success with an undergravel filter? Both with and without. No difference. -- You've always been the caretaker here. richard@gryphon.CTS.COM rutgers!marque!gryphon!richard
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (05/05/88)
In article <334@unisv.UUCP> vanpelt@.UUCP (Mike Van Pelt) writes: >In article <28007@yale-celray.yale.UUCP> Ram-Ashwin@cs.yale.edu (Ashwin Ram) writes: >>- Try plant plugs or peat pots. >I have. Didn't seem to help. >> >>- If there is copper in your tank (most medications have copper), it's bye-bye >>plants. >I quit using copper after someone in a fish store told me about how >clown loaches will rid a tank of snails in nothing flat. That was a >number or water changes ago. (Boy, those clown loaches go through >snails like Sherman through Georgia!) > >Come to think of it, though, my last attempt at pots & peat plugs may have >been while I was dumping enough copper in the tank to turn the fish green >in an (entirely futile) attempt to control the snails. I'm not sure I'd agree about peat pots, they always putrify for me. The copper is a definite bad move. It bonds to the gravel and if there is an acid introduced the sum of the cumulative doses is released back into the water. Nasty shit. >One thing that might be relevant -- San Jose has extremely hard, alkaline >water. I'm using phosphoric acid to neutralize it AHA. It seems to me that everywhere I've heard of has hard alkaline water, and all fish are bred in this stuff, from fancy guppies to discus. I wouldnr bother trying to alter my aquarium chemistry. It's just not worth it. >Should plants have soft water? Not in general. -- You've always been the caretaker here. richard@gryphon.CTS.COM rutgers!marque!gryphon!richard
harald@leo.UUCP ( Harald Milne) (05/05/88)
In article <411@bacchus.DEC.COM>, gringort@decwrl.dec.com (Joel Gringorten) writes: >> BTW, I had a near tank disaster with a strain of caulerpa that looks >>like a fern plant. (The leaves). Under certain conditions, this kind of >>caulerpa goes into "algea bloom". The entire chain turns a translucent white >>and dies. The tank turns into greenish color, and is severely polluted. I >>doubt an undergravel filtration system would have the capacity to handle this >>level of pollution. Just a warning. > > Yup, I had the same experience with that same type of caulerpa. Fortunately, > I have a high capacity filtration system, and my tank water never got > polluted. > > What I'm trying to determine is what the "certain conditions" are that > cause massive die-offs of caulerpa. Unknown presently. There were numerous discussions in Goerge Smit's series of articles in FAMA regarding his reef system. From what I can remeber, one suspected cause is a sudden change in salinity. This might happen during a water exchange or a "topping off" to replenish evaporated water. There was also mention of detection of this condition, and even methods of staving off the death of the entire chain. If you want, beat me over the head, and I'll try to find the specific issue(s) that deal with this topic. > My theory > is that a heavy growth of a strain of caulerpa, depletes the supply of > whatever it is that they thrive on. I thought this just slowed the growth. I don't know for sure. > When the nutrients get exausted, > the caulerpa dies. One solution might be to keep it pruned back to > a reasonable level. That would aleviate the demand for nutrition. > This will also prevenet a massive tank pollution > should the stuff decide to croak one day. My system has a very light > fish load, and my nitrate levels are immeassurably low. Hmmm. That's interesting. Nitrates immeassurably low? How do you test for nitrates? What methods of water management do you use? Water exchanges never eliminate nitrates, just dilute the level. Delicatetly throttled denitrators can remove ALL nitrates. Is that what you use? > Hence my experimentation with the algae suppliments. > > Since my "Fern" caulpera croaked, I've been keeping only a type of > caulerpa that has leaves like pine needles. It's doing well, and > when it dies, it seem to decay at a slower rate than the fern. I had this too. The entire chain died, hence the species. > Anybody know the correct names for these caulerpas? Again, there are articles in FAMA that showed picture with names. I bitched about the lack of proper names a while back, but now I think this was a bad idea. You can't relate unless people know what the hell you are talking about. Except bioligists. -- Work: Computer Consoles Inc. (CCI), Advanced Development Group (ADG) Irvine, CA (RISCy business!) UUCP: uunet!ccicpg!leo!harald
harald@leo.UUCP ( Harald Milne) (05/05/88)
In article <5316@ihlpg.ATT.COM>, dalka@ihlpg.ATT.COM (Ken Dalka) writes: > I've had problems with my caulerpa dying but I think its because it > eventually gets engulfed by stray algae. Off hand, I would say a lack of light. It really does make a difference. > (That ugly green stuff that > you have to scrap off the glass every couple of weeks.) Anybody know > how to control this stuff? Caulerpa or algea? It is the same stuff, just that caulerpa is a higher more evolved form of algea, called macro-algea. A higher form of algea, but not really a plant in the true sense. Reduce nitrate levels to zero. You can't get rid of algea, but you can slow the growth at the food source. If you have no light, you can't have algea at all. Or caulerpa. Kinda a catch-22. > Ken Dalka (Bell Labs) > ihnp4!ihlpg!dalka > IE 2F-518 (312) 416-7437 -- Work: Computer Consoles Inc. (CCI), Advanced Development Group (ADG) Irvine, CA (RISCy business!) UUCP: uunet!ccicpg!leo!harald
gringort@decwrl.dec.com (Joel Gringorten) (05/10/88)
In article <3037@leo.UUCP> harald@leo.UUCP ( Harald Milne) writes: > > Reduce nitrate levels to zero. You can't get rid of algea, but you can >slow the growth at the food source. If you have no light, you can't have >algea at all. Or caulerpa. Kinda a catch-22. > Actually there may be a way. There have been reports that maintaining high redox potential promotes macro algae, while diminishing the simple algaes. I've been experimenting with ozone to increase my redox potential. About all I can report so far is that too much ozone destroys caulerpa. I've cranked the ozone level down a bit, and my caulerpa is thriving, although it seems not to be propagating as fast. Micro algaes, including slime algaes still exist and thrive. These algaes in particular, so a report claimed, thrive in low redox conditions. This same report recommended an ozonizer for increasing the redox potential. I'm beginning to think the whole redox/algae connection is a bunch of bunk. The *right* way to experiment with redox is to use a redox meter and probe. However, these gadgets start at around $350.00 and are noted for being unstable. -- -joel