SCF7@manvax.bitnet ("MYRNA E. WATANABE") (11/05/90)
Regarding the suggested Westinghouse Projects that came over the net from mmm@cup.portal.com and Roy's request (which I deleted by mistake): this brings up the question of whether a high school student who requests a Westinghouse or Science Fair project should be handed it from a research scientist. I discussed this with my sister, who, for the last four years, ran the New York City School Science Fair for the New York Academy of Sciences. The NYAS places students from their Junior Academy in laboratories in the New York area, but the general attitude is that the students SHOULD NOT be going into the labs asking for a Westinghouse or Science Fair project. If a scientist asks about this, he or she is usually told that they should tell the student: "You are welcome to work in my laboratory to learn what it is like to be a research scientist and learn laboratory techniques. If your only goal is the completion of a project for competition, then you should not be working here. If, in the course of your work here, a Westinghouse or Science Fair project develops, I will do whatever I can to assist you, with the understanding that this project is mainly your own work." Obviously, there are limitations here. For the Science Fair projects, and, I suspect, the Westinghouse Projects, all invasive animal procedures must be done by the research scientist and cannot be done by the student. The point of this, is the fear that the PROJECT becomes the end all and be all for the student, and that laboratory experience without the immediate goal of a project also is valuable (albeit, there is no prize or recognition or admission to Harvard or MIT here). For the record, I have no opinion on this matter, but I think it is worthy of debate. Myrna E. Watanabe Biology Department Manhattan College Bronx, NY 10471 USA scf7@manvax.bitnet
smith@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu (11/05/90)
In article <9011050217.AA02448@genbank.bio.net>, SCF7@manvax.bitnet ("MYRNA E. WATANABE") writes: > Regarding the suggested Westinghouse Projects that came over the net > from mmm@cup.portal.com and Roy's request (which I deleted by mistake): > this brings up the question of whether a high school student who requests > a Westinghouse or Science Fair project should be handed it from a research > scientist. > > ... the general attitude is that the students SHOULD NOT be > going into the labs asking for a Westinghouse or Science Fair project. If > a scientist asks about this, he or she is usually told that they should > tell the student: "You are welcome to work in my laboratory to learn what > it is like to be a research scientist and learn laboratory techniques. If > your only goal is the completion of a project for competition, then you > should not be working here. If, in the course of your work here, a > Westinghouse or Science Fair project develops, I will do whatever I can to > assist you, with the understanding that this project is mainly your own > work." > ... > The point of this, is the fear that the PROJECT becomes the end all and be > all for the student, and that laboratory experience without the immediate > goal of a project also is valuable (albeit, there is no prize or recognition > or admission to Harvard or MIT here). I absolutely agree. We had a 'Westinghouse' student from a local high school here last year. It was a worthless experience for everybody, and I have NO intention of doing it again. The problem is that the schools send the students out with the charge to 'find a Westinghouse project, dead or alive'. The schools themselves need to realize that this idea of asking every student to get a Westinghouse project is totally inapropriate. +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Ross Smith, Cell Biology, NYU Medical Center, 550 First Ave., NYC, 10016| |Phone: (212) 340-5356: FAX: (212) 340-8139 (Alternate NYUMC) (212) 340-7190| |E-Mail: SMITH@NYUMED.BITNET (BITNET), SMITH@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Internet)| +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
NUM208JN@NRCCAD.NRC.CA (JOHN NASH) (11/07/90)
G'morning folks, About the following comments on high school students coming into labs for help on Science Fair projects: MYRNA E. WATANABE writes: > Regarding the suggested Westinghouse Projects that came over the net > from mmm@cup.portal.com and Roy's request (which I deleted by mistake): > this brings up the question of whether a high school student who requests > a Westinghouse or Science Fair project should be handed it from a research > scientist. and ROSS SMITH writes: > I absolutely agree. We had a 'Westinghouse' student from a local high school > here last year. It was a worthless experience for everybody, and I have NO > intention of doing it again. Fair enough, but I've had mixed experiences with such students. We've had students come in wanting us to do some fancy cloning experiment for them (and we've gently made them see the light). On the other hand, we've had the pleasant experiences. Last year, we had a pair of students come to use and ask for help in designing a basic anaerobic bioreactor. We gave them the books, a few tips, and they set up the reactor themselves using equipment available from kitchens and hardware stores. We gave them advice (and I believe we analysed some samples through the GC for them) but they did all the real work - setting the reactor up, keeping it alive, etc. They did fairly well... and I believe we should encourage such students. Another year, we had a student do some "Game of Life" programming in conjunction with a population genetics professor, and the student did a good job (by himself)! Maybe the scientists/professors should chat with the students a couple of times, giving them references to look at during the first chat, before committing themselves either way. I've also been a judge at the local Science Fair (post-docs were "encouraged" to do these things at my last place!), and you can tell the original projects during the demonstrations. cheers, John, ---------------------------------------------------------- John Nash <bitnet: NUM208JN@NRCCAD.NRC.CA > Institute for Biological Sciences, National Research Council of Canada, Ottawa, Canada. ============================================================