newsuser@LTH.Se (LTH network news server) (02/21/89)
In article <39:doelz@urz.unibas.ch> doelz@urz.unibas.ch (Reinhard Doelz) writes: >>We have a ``Dimension-6'' -- a steering ball that senses rotation and >>translation in 3 dimensions. >I'd like to know whether you could give me the adress of the company >and how you managed to write a driver! Ok, to get a Dimension-6 I think you should contact: CIS Graphik und Bildverarbeitung GmbH Helmholtzstrasse 21 Postfach 10 01 80 D-4060 Viersen 1 B. R. D. Phone: +49 2162 - 3 00 11 Telex: 8 518 835 cis d Fax: +49 2162 - 142 87 Not too far away from you! We have an early version of the steering ball, which has worked flawlessly; looking at the sales glossy, it looks like they have improved the design considerably, e.g., added a wrist rest. The ``driver'' is very simple: The ball is connected to a RS-232 port. My initialization routine sets up the serial port in ``RAW'' mode, and the reading routine does the following: 1. Send request code to ball. 2. Read serial port. 3. Compute checksum. 4. Return a structure with data. The version we have now sends the request after reading the port, so data will (hopefully) be available the next time the reading routine is called. I can mail the code to anyone interested. The flight program requires some minor modifications, but I cannot recall exactly what. I could have a look... Just to widen the discussion on flight: Have you heard any comments from people with real experience of the planes in flight? I think the visual feedback is very powerful, but would a real F-15 pilot be annoyed by significant differences in plane characteristics? Philosophical outgrowth: when modelling a real-world system, how can we (as computer specialists, not application specialists) determine what are the significant attributes of the system? For example, how important is feedback of G-forces in a flight simulator? Dag M. Bruck -- Department of Automatic Control Internet: dag@control.lth.se Lund Institute of Technology P. O. Box 118 Phone: +46 46-108779 S-221 00 Lund, SWEDEN Fax: +46 46-138118
newsuser@LTH.Se (LTH network news server) (02/21/89)
After buying the 6D steering ball, we approached SGI and asked them to support it. We think it's a fantastic device, and much in line with the ``high-tech'' image of SGI. In particular, we suggested they would hook it up to the Graphics Library, much like the Dial and Button box which is also connected to an RS-232 port. One of the big advantages would be event input from the ball. Unfortunately, they were not interested, and would not release source code of GL so we could do it ourselves. Pity. Dag M. Bruck -- Department of Automatic Control Internet: dag@control.lth.se Lund Institute of Technology P. O. Box 118 Phone: +46 46-108779 S-221 00 Lund, SWEDEN Fax: +46 46-138118
jmb@patton.SGI.COM (Jim Barton) (02/23/89)
In article <1989Feb21.094645.25612@LTH.Se>, newsuser@LTH.Se (LTH network news server) writes: > > After buying the 6D steering ball, we approached SGI and asked them > to support it. We think it's a fantastic device, and much in line > with the ``high-tech'' image of SGI. In particular, we suggested > they would hook it up to the Graphics Library, much like the Dial > and Button box which is also connected to an RS-232 port. > One of the big advantages would be event input from the ball. > > Unfortunately, they were not interested, and would not release > source code of GL so we could do it ourselves. Pity. > > Dag M. Bruck > -- > Department of Automatic Control Internet: dag@control.lth.se > Lund Institute of Technology > P. O. Box 118 Phone: +46 46-108779 > S-221 00 Lund, SWEDEN Fax: +46 46-138118 Don't be too hard on us. Unlike you, we can't just go out and decide to sell these things on a moment's notice. Consider what you, as a user and customer, need to see from us: 1) The driver has to work properly, which means extensive testing. 2) It needs power. Do you want another line cord (and transformer, etc.) or can we power it off the machine? 3) FCC, UL, etc., have to bless the setup (protects us as well as the user). 4) Just "hooking up to the GL" isn't easy, and having the GL code wouldn't do you any good anyway. Events such as these are handled by NeWS, so it can pass off the data to whatever window is active. So to do this right, you need mods to the kernel, the GL and 4Sight. 5) You'd probably like us to document it as well, hopefully accurately. That means we need to update the Owner's Guide, the GL programers guide, the 4Sight programmer's guide, the system administrators manual, the Field Engineering support documentation, and who knows what else. 6) Quality has to test the thing and make sure it stands up to random static discharges, doesn't fry in a couple months, and other nicities. Field Engineering has to figure out how to service the thing. 7) We have to make a deal with the manufacturer to get a reasonable price at some volume, so we can re-sell it at a reasonable price as well, as well as getting our investment back. Given at least all this, it shouldn't surprise you that an initial reception to the idea was lukewarm. We need lot's of people to tell us they'd pay money for it for it to be worthwhile to OEM. In any case, lot's of people HAVE told us they'd pay money for it, so we are working an productizing a space ball now (we're still evaluating the available products). You should hear more in the near future. Don't try and order one - you can't until we announce it. Considering the amount of work requried to OEM such a device, I believe that SGI moves quicker than most other computer manufactureres that I have seen. But we can't move mountains overnight. -- Jim Barton Silicon Graphics Computer Systems "UNIX: Live Free Or Die!" jmb@sgi.sgi.com, sgi!jmb@decwrl.dec.com, ...{decwrl,sun}!sgi!jmb "I used to be disgusted, now I'm just amused." - Elvis Costello, 'Red Shoes' --
ciemo@bananapc.SGI.COM (Dave Ciemiewicz) (02/23/89)
In article <1989Feb21.094645.25612@LTH.Se>, newsuser@LTH.Se (LTH network news server) writes: > > ... > > Unfortunately, they were not interested, and would not release > source code of GL so we could do it ourselves. Pity. > > Dag M. Bruck > -- > Department of Automatic Control Internet: dag@control.lth.se > Lund Institute of Technology > P. O. Box 118 Phone: +46 46-108779 > S-221 00 Lund, SWEDEN Fax: +46 46-138118 I am suprised that you were not able to purchase a copy of the source code. Source code is available as a software special from SGI. There are software licensing agreements that must be signed and of course we don't just give away our source code. If you really want or need source code, I'd check again with your SGI sales representative about purchasing a copy. -- Dave (commonplace) "Boldly going where no one cares to go." Ciemiewicz (incomprehensible) ciemo (infamous)
newsuser@LTH.Se (LTH network news server) (02/23/89)
In article <27256@sgi.SGI.COM> jmb@patton.SGI.COM (Jim Barton) writes: >In article <1989Feb21.094645.25612@LTH.Se>, newsuser@LTH.Se (LTH network news server) writes: >> >> Unfortunately, they were not interested, and would not release >> source code of GL so we could do it ourselves. Pity. > >Don't be too hard on us. Unlike you, we can't just go out and decide to >sell these things on a moment's notice. Consider what you, as a user and >customer, need to see from us: [ explanation deleted ] >Considering the amount of work requried to OEM such a device, I believe that >SGI moves quicker than most other computer manufactureres that I have seen. >But we can't move mountains overnight. I demonstrated the ball to Roger Allison (SGI/UK) on April 1st, 1987. He also received a full set of documentation. Let my quote his telex, dated April 13th, 1987: ``I made a special request to Silicon Graphics, USA on your behalf for appropriate source to enable you to add in support for the sensor-ball to our graphics library. Unfortunately, this request has been denied. There is little interest in having an interface for this device on the 2400 system.'' I'm happy to hear that your interest for similar devices has increased over time. I would gratefully accept further information when it becomes available. I think I would have been less hard on you, had I received a detailed explanation of your troubles marketing a new device in 1987. Dag M Bruck -- Department of Automatic Control Internet: dag@control.lth.se Lund Institute of Technology P. O. Box 118 Phone: +46 46-108779 S-221 00 Lund, SWEDEN Fax: +46 46-138118
jmb@patton.SGI.COM (Jim Barton) (02/25/89)
In article <1989Feb23.101443.12312@LTH.Se>, newsuser@LTH.Se (LTH network news server) writes: ... > I demonstrated the ball to Roger Allison (SGI/UK) on April 1st, 1987. > He also received a full set of documentation. > > Let my quote his telex, dated April 13th, 1987: > > ``I made a special request to Silicon Graphics, USA on your behalf > for appropriate source to enable you to add in support for the > sensor-ball to our graphics library. Unfortunately, this request > has been denied. There is little interest in having an interface > for this device on the 2400 system.'' > > I'm happy to hear that your interest for similar devices has increased over > time. I would gratefully accept further information when it becomes > available. > > I think I would have been less hard on you, had I received a detailed > explanation of your troubles marketing a new device in 1987. > > Dag M Bruck > > > -- > Department of Automatic Control Internet: dag@control.lth.se > Lund Institute of Technology > P. O. Box 118 Phone: +46 46-108779 > S-221 00 Lund, SWEDEN Fax: +46 46-138118 Be careful though - we will never support the space ball on anything but the 4D series. You can, however, buy GL code for the 680X0 machines, I believe. -- Jim Barton Silicon Graphics Computer Systems "UNIX: Live Free Or Die!" jmb@sgi.sgi.com, sgi!jmb@decwrl.dec.com, ...{decwrl,sun}!sgi!jmb "I used to be disgusted, now I'm just amused." - Elvis Costello, 'Red Shoes' --