mel (02/11/83)
Unless my ears were playing tricks on me, I heard a DEC sales type announce
UNIX for the pro at the UNICOM general session. Weren't there others there
who heard that, too? As to the DEC push of the PC as "an END-USER application
machine" -- that certainly is true (they didn't even supply a CP/M manual
with my Rainbow). But isn't this a bunch of hogwash? "Personal Computer"?
How can it be "personal" if you have no control over it? How can you call it
a "computer" if you can't program it? DEC should call them "CPR"s (Canned
Program Runners", and let them die on the market, because who would want one
of those? I haven't ever seen a "Canned Program" that didn't need some
tweaking to make it work in the "end-user" environment; with the DEC PC, the
"canned mess" you bought, is the "canned mess" you will have to live with.
Mel Haas , houxm!melSMH@sri-kl.arpa (02/11/83)
From: Scott M. Hinnrichs <SMH@sri-kl.arpa> At the UNICOM conference in San Diego (Jan 26-28) DEC announced support of Berkeley UNIX on the VAX series and CONTRARY TO PREVIOUS DEC COMMENTS UNIX WILL BE SUPPORTED ON THE PC... release of UNIX from DEC for the VAX series is dependent on Berkley's release of 4.2bsd, and the PC UNIX is forthcoming from UNISOFT (a company located in the Berkeley area) Scott -------
puder (02/12/83)
Last summer's /usr/group, USENIX Association, Software Tools User Group Joint Conference in Boston had a talk by Gregory J. O'Brien on the results of the project to port V7 to DEC's PC-350. I didn't attend, but the abstract gives the indication that the port was successful. Some features of the kernel (multi-user support) were removed for compactness; 47k of memory used by the kernel; 70% of 11/23 performance. Karl Puder burdvax!puder SDC-aBC, R & D Paoli, Pa. (215)648-7555
guy (02/14/83)
The argument that a "personal computer" isn't "personal" unless you can tweak it is equivalent to saying that one's "personal automobile" isn't "personal" unless one can hot-rod it. Most people who buy a car could care less about changing the camshaft to give them performance more like what they "really" want. The same is true of computers; most people buy one to get a job done, and most of them would prefer to get that job done without having to learn how to tell it to do that job. Working in the UNIX-with-source-license environment gives one the impression that *everyone* tweaks *every* program that they work with; this simply isn't true, and is becoming a lot less true now that UNIX binary licenses are becoming the norm. Guy Harris RLG Corporation (decvax!duke!mcnc!rlgvax!guy)
shp (02/14/83)
A PC (that's not a PC) is a PC when used with a VAX. The first generation DEC PC's are designed to be used with a VAX. One writes, develops, and builds on the VAX, then down loads to the PC. The PC was aimed at the commercial market where people were more interested in running a set of tools to help them do a better job than they were in hacking. It fits well into the whole office automation picture. Like most other things, taken out of context it's somewhat useless. By not having to sell software so that you can do program development the price has been kept very low. No doubt DEC will make the PC's true PC's by offering development software (if someone else doesn't first). - sam praul ...decvax!ittvax!shp
cfh (02/16/83)
I don't think the issue is so much whether each user would want to tweak each program but rather whether the manufacturer of the PC makes it possible for ANYONE (including third party software companies) to modify the software. Certainly requiring one to purchase a VAX in order to make any changes or additions to the standard software would reduce many people's options.
mclure (03/09/83)
#R:burdvax:-56000:sri-unix:16000002:000:294 sri-unix!mclure Feb 12 11:25:00 1983 We have one of these down the hall for evaluation purposes. It seems awfully slow and the OS requires too much typing (a common problem with menu-based systems without a mouse). If and when it runs Unix at a reasonable speed, then we'll have something. Stuart [The Unix army marches on...]
spf@bonnie.UUCP (Steve Frysinger) (09/25/84)
Can it be that nobody has an opinion about the DEC 350?? I'd like to hear (read) almost anybody's opinion about the machine and its P/OS operating system, because I'm in danger of buying one (I never really got my old 11/60 out of my soul!). If you have any input, please respond asap. Thanks! Steve Frysinger bonnie!spf