loki@NAZGUL.PHYSICS.MCGILL.CA (Loki Jorgenson Rm421) (03/21/91)
I concur that it seems unreasonable that a piece of system software
which is being distributed freely via normal channels (in system releases)
can't be distributed via the net. It does not fall into the category of
commercial use of the net (it would seem).
However, I recognize the tenuous nature of SGI's access to the
net and the relative sensitivity they have to this issue. If they
choose to be cautious, then I must respect this prudence insofar as I
wish to see that we continue to enjoy the presence of SGI on this list.
It is their responsibility and their decision after all.
__ __
Loki Jorgenson / / \ \ node: loki@Physics.McGill.CA
Grad, Systems Manager / ////// \\\\\\ \ BITNET: PY29@MCGILLA
Physics, McGill University \ \\\\\\ ////// / fax: (514) 398-8434
Montreal Quebec CANADA \_\ /_/ phone: (514) 398-7027mg@godzilla.cgl.rmit.oz.au (Mike Gigante) (03/23/91)
It would seem that one way would be to make showcase available on one of the anonymous FTP areas (e.g. ftp.brl.mil, maybe even my machine). After all, is there some rule that says people at commercial sites can't make s/w available for free? In fact, I'd be happy to provide anon FTP space for showcase. Having said this, I can't see the difference b/n showcase and the image conversion tools that are already on sgi.com - both are binaries for SGI machines, useful to customers and free. Mike Gigante, RMIT, Australia mg@godzilla.cgl.rmit.oz.au
drw900@anusf.anu.edu.au ("Drew R Whitehouse") (03/25/91)
In article <9103211517.AA16498@nazgul.physics.mcgill.ca>, loki@NAZGUL.PHYSICS.MCGILL.CA (Loki Jorgenson Rm421) writes: |> |> I concur that it seems unreasonable that a piece of system software |> which is being distributed freely via normal channels (in system releases) |> can't be distributed via the net. It does not fall into the category of |> commercial use of the net (it would seem). |> |> However, I recognize the tenuous nature of SGI's access to the |> net and the relative sensitivity they have to this issue. If they |> choose to be cautious, then I must respect this prudence insofar as I |> wish to see that we continue to enjoy the presence of SGI on this list. |> It is their responsibility and their decision after all. Two questions - 1. Would it be possible for SG to make the Showcase program (current version) freely distributable and unsupported. Then someone who had a copy could make it available for anon. ftp eg FTP.BRL.MIL. 2. How come SUN manage to distribute XView and the likes via X11/contrib ? I think that doing small things like this is one of the reasons that so many people go out and buy SUN's regardless of the technical prowess of the machines. So many software bit's and pieces are available to make life easy/interesting. Every bit of software you think might be useful doesn't require a trip to the post office / department administrator (groan). Encouraging this sort of flexibility of distribution in the SG world can only help SG sales in the long run. Drew -- /*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*/ /* Drew Whitehouse, E-mail: drw900@anusf.anu.edu.au */ /* Visualization Programmer, (NOTE: recent change, no more csc2 ) */ /* Australian National University, Phone : (06) 2495985 */ /* Supercomputer Facility. Fax : (06) 2473425 */ /* GPO Box 4, Canberra ACT Australia 2601. */ /*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
anns@razy.esd.sgi.com (Ann Sydeman) (03/26/91)
Thanks for all the interest in IRIS Showcase. I know many people are very eager to receive a copy of the software as soon as possible and so have requested that we make Showcase available through anonymous ftp. We will continue, however, with our current plan for distribution- bundled with all new machines, bundled with all OS upgrades, immediately purchasable through Software Express for those who want it NOW. I understand the need and desire to be able to access this software for free and have it now. Showcase is a very useful tool. For two main reasons, we will not make it availale via anonymous ftp: customer support and network issues. Showcase IS a supported product. The Technical Assistance Center (aka the hotline) does their best to answer questions as efficiently as possible. It is unfair to ask them to support a product which has been released without documentation. Also, but perhaps less importantly, the Showcase images are large, about 7 Mbytes, and contain many components- executables, help files, and other support files. We neither want to tie up the network transferring these large files to many sites, nor have to support bad installations or corrupted data. Showcase was developed with the needs of our customers in mind. It provides badly needed basic productivity tools. I hope the positive side of receiving such useful software for negligible, or no, cost outweighs the frustration of having to wait a little while or pay $100. Thanks, Ann
portuesi@tweezers.esd.sgi.com (Michael Portuesi) (03/27/91)
In article <mg.669694950@godzilla>, Mike Gigante writes: > Having said this, I can't see the difference b/n showcase and the image > conversion tools that are already on sgi.com - both are binaries for SGI > machines, useful to customers and free. There is a big difference between Showcase and software such as image tools and gman already on sgi.com. The former are quick programs written by our engineering and R&D staff that we thought people might like to use. They are not officially SGI supported products. We don't ship them with our machines. You don't need an IRIX maintenance license to get them. Showcase is a commercial product. Somewhere around a million dollars was spent polishing, documenting, marketing, and producing the product so that it could be of commercial quality. It comes as part of the standard IRIX software distribution with new machines. It has a very useful user's manual that cannot be included with a network distribution. If it doesn't work, we promise to help you make it work, or fix it if it is broken. We don't make that promise for the other software which is on sgi.sgi.com. The fact that we chose to bundle the software with our standard IRIX distribution rather than selling it as a separate option is a reflection of Showcase's importance to our users as a productivity tool, not our declaration of it as "free" software. We're sorry if $100 is too much to pay, or an impossible paperwork challenge if you need Showcase in the interim. But it does cost us money to package and distribute each copy of Showcase apart from our standard software releases. We'd all like to give you IRIS upgrades for free if we could, but we wouldn't be in business for long if we did. m. __ \/ Michael Portuesi Silicon Graphics, Inc. portuesi@sgi.com "a knife, a fork, a bottle and a cork..."
brian%harpo.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Brian Sturgill) (03/27/91)
> From: anns@razy.esd.sgi.com (Ann Sydeman) > Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi > Subject: Showcase Distribution > Message-ID: <93515@sgi.sgi.com> > Date: 26 Mar 91 00:31:44 GMT > ... > I understand the need and desire to be able to access this software for > free and have it now. Showcase is a very useful tool. For two main reasons, > we will not make it availale via anonymous ftp: customer support and network > issues. Showcase IS a supported product. The Technical Assistance Center > (aka the hotline) does their best to answer questions as efficiently > as possible. It is unfair to ask them to support a product which has been > released without documentation. Also, but perhaps less importantly, the > Showcase images are large, about 7 Mbytes, and contain many components- > executables, help files, and other support files. We neither want to tie > up the network transferring these large files to many sites, nor have to > support bad installations or corrupted data. These excuses do not seem well founded. You could make images of the documentation available via ftp too. People regularly transfer that much data. CMU currently sends the entire MACH operating system distribution to sites over the network. The entire X distributions (much bigger than 7 megs) is available from MIT via anonymous ftp. Apple makes all of their Tech Notes available via anonymous ftp (about 3 megs). Apple made the last few of there OS distributions available via anonymous ftp. (5+ megs). These distributions were released without documentation. As to "nor have to support bad installations or corrupted data", perhaps SGI networking has this sort of problem (though my experience is that it doesn't), but this being a real problem strikes me as most unlikely. The entire idea behind networking protocols like TCP is that data arrives reliably and uncorrupted. If it SGI's intention to use Showcase as bait for new purchases, they should simply say so and let things fall where they will. > > Showcase was developed with the needs of our customers in mind. It provides > badly needed basic productivity tools. I hope the positive side of receiving > such useful software for negligible, or no, cost outweighs the frustration > of having to wait a little while or pay $100. Seeing as normal paid for software distributions from SGI takes several months I suspect that 'a little while' is an understatement. > > Thanks, > > Ann Brian ------------- Brian Sturgill brian@cs.utah.edu (Yet another customer unhappy about having to pay SGI for buggy versions of X.)
rcgmg@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Mike Gigante) (03/29/91)
portuesi@tweezers.esd.sgi.com (Michael Portuesi) writes: ]In article <mg.669694950@godzilla>, Mike Gigante writes: ]> Having said this, I can't see the difference b/n showcase and the image ]> conversion tools that are already on sgi.com - both are binaries for SGI ]> machines, useful to customers and free. ]There is a big difference between Showcase and software ]such as image tools and gman already on sgi.com. The former are ]quick programs written by our engineering and R&D staff that ]we thought people might like to use. They are not officially SGI ]supported products. We don't ship them with our machines. ]You don't need an IRIX maintenance license to get them. Not to nitpick, but some of the image tools are shipped with IRIX on the EOE[12] tapes right? Mike