gnu@sun.uucp (John Gilmore) (12/04/84)
I'm surprised that nobody has commented on the Data General/One here. Perhaps nobody has seen it yet? I did note that none of Byte's pictures were with the screen turned on (though there were a few in the DG ad in the front of the magazine), and that Byte said "until I could get a video monitor for it, I wouldn't buy it". What's the scoop? Can you read the sucker all day or not? I heard rumors that they're going to build in the 1200 baud modem (no big deal these days) and offer Unix (presumably with a hard disk) or some Uniclone.
rpw3@redwood.UUCP (Rob Warnock) (12/05/84)
+--------------- | From: gnu@sun.uucp (John Gilmore) | I'm surprised that nobody has commented on the Data General/One here. | Perhaps nobody has seen it yet? +--------------- I took a day trip down to the Fall COMDEX show (in Los Vegas) just before Thanksgiving. Since I was just there for a day, I didn't linger at every booth, but DID spend some time looking at the DG/One, among others. Observation: At every COMDEX one discovers an implicit "theme", as if everybody had decided to announce the same kind of product at once. "...When it's steamboat time, steamboats get built." Fall 1981 was small UNIX systems; '82 was 68000 workstations; '83 was windows, windows, windows,...; and 1984 is the year of the lap-top portable IBM-PC-compatible with 3-1/2" floppy and flat-panel 80 x 24 liquid-crystal display (*whew*). There were also beaucoup 80 x 16 lap/PC/flop/LCDs in evidence, but the 80 x 24 were plentiful enough that you knew the smaller guys had missed the window, so to speak (*chortle*). On almost all of them, the display is on a "flip top" that closes when the unit is powered off. On many of them the display lid also closes and/or locks the keyboard, acting as a dust cover. After seeing the large number of them, I am convinced that LCDs are now "real". Even among that throng, the DG/One stood out as the only one I saw (I was rushed, remember) that had a FULL SIZED display -- it's nearly the surface area of a 12" CRT monitor, and the same aspect ratio. The other 80 x 24 systems were very scrunched in the vertical dimension, about half the height you would expect, given the width. The DG/One's display is bit-addressable: 640 x 250 (640 x 200 in "IBM mode", whatever that means). The display is fast enough to do "page turning" demos, and even to provide limited animation. Several of their demo screens would first flash the whole page, then some piece of the picture would move in roughly one-second steps. The "Take Off With Us" scene showed a runway with a plane taking off. The plane moved about 5 or 6 times before the next screen was presented. It was quite clean, and seemed to be more limited by the time to compute the bits than the time to paint them. +--------------- | ...I did note that none of Byte's pictures | were with the screen turned on (though there were a few in the DG ad | in the front of the magazine), and that Byte said "until I could get a | video monitor for it, I wouldn't buy it". | | What's the scoop? Can you read the sucker all day or not? +--------------- I think it would be just fine, though you do need ambient light to read it (just like paper ;-} ). They had some internal argument about the color, which none of their experts or consultants could resolve, so you get a choice (at purchase time) of black/white or green/yellow. Both have a brightness/contrast control, something I haven't seen on LCDs before. You can adjust the overall shade of the display through quite a wide range. +--------------- | I heard rumors that they're going to build in the 1200 baud modem (no | big deal these days) and offer Unix (presumably with a hard disk) or some | Uniclone. +--------------- Let's see... What else did they say? Oh, yeah, it comes with 128K and one floppy (720K!), but you can add a second floppy inboard and up to 512K of RAM inboard. It comes a couple of other ports built in (RS-232, etc.). There is a connector that goes to an external IBM-compatible expansion chassis, so you can add additional peripherals AND EVEN MEMORY outside. The expander uses "standard" IBM PC cards, so presumably you could plug almost anything in (within the normal limits of compatibility glitches). The connector has CMOS levels, so you have to buy their interface adapter (or equivalent). Some of the DG-supplied portable (battery-powered) options connect directly to the CMOS bus. They don't seem reticent about it, and were willing to discuss with me how to build peripherals for it. Kind of neat... come home from a trip, plug it into your expansion box, fire up the hard disk or tape and copy off all of the floppies you have written while you were on the road. It comes with re-chargable batteries, and it is claimed to work for 8-9 hours if you are accessing the floppy with a 25% duty cycle (longer if you touch the floppy less often). The 720K per floppy isn't bad, either. It doesn't have a handle, but instead comes with a Macintosh-like padded tote bag. Salesman: "We think a fine instrument like this shouldn't be banged around." Sounds like they are just being realistic about the kind of treatment lap-top portables are likely to get... ;-} Altogether, it was a nice booth, and a nice presentation. The sales types had plenty of technical information available, and were willing to share it. It's not cheap (around $3K to start), but doesn't seem overpriced either, if you really need a lap-top. Rob Warnock UUCP: {ihnp4,ucbvax!amd}!fortune!redwood!rpw3 DDD: (415)572-2607 Envoy: rob.warnock/kingfisher USPS: 510 Trinidad Ln, Foster City, CA 94404
spear@ihopb.UUCP (Steven Spearman) (12/05/84)
The DB/one is a nice little machine - a lot packed in a small package. The screen is definitely a little hard to read under less than optimum light conditions. There is a glare screen which is removable, and you can adjust the darkness of the LCD display, but never quite as dark and clear as I would like. Steve Spearman ihnp4!ihopb!spear
westerm@pur-ee.UUCP (Westerman) (12/05/84)
Yes, a article without actual pictures of the screen is always a warning
sign. Remember the pictures of the Apple IIc flat screen without anything
on them?
- Rick Westerman
{biggies}!pur-ee!westermjgi3213@acf4.UUCP (12/05/84)
I've seen it, and reluctantly I must say that the display is horrible. Lighting is critical, and even with optimal lighting one must crane one's neck to be able to read the entire screen. Contrast is poor, glare is also a problem. The word is that all photos showing the display in use are retouched.
brahms@spp2.UUCP (12/05/84)
>I'm surprised that nobody has commented on the Data General/One here. >Perhaps nobody has seen it yet? I did note that none of Byte's pictures >were with the screen turned on (though there were a few in the DG ad >in the front of the magazine), and that Byte said "until I could get a >video monitor for it, I wouldn't buy it". > >What's the scoop? Can you read the sucker all day or not? I had a DG/One for a day to test it out. In my office, with overhead lighting, the screen is very hard to read. The best lighting for it is to have a light behind you. I have heard, that they will have a different screen out sometime in the middle of next year. >I heard rumors that they're going to build in the 1200 baud modem (no >big deal these days) and offer Unix (presumably with a hard disk) or some >Uniclone. Another annoying feature is its 300 baud internal modem. Why they didn't use a 1200 I'll never know. Also, XTALK (the only vt-100 emulator that I know about for the DG/One), is poor when it comes to emulating a vt-100. Unix? I doubt it. If they added a hard disk, then they would have to add one of the new small ones (the DG/1 uses two 3.5in drives). Also, they are running on an 80c88, therefore, if they brought one out, I would think it would be Xenix. If you have the money, I would go with a Grid Compass. The screen is much easier to read in any type of lighting. The only problem, it is also a lot more expensive. -- Brad Brahms usenet: {decvax,ucbvax}!trwrb!trwspp!brahms arpa: Brahms@usc-eclc (The opinions above are my own, and may not reflect the opinions of my employer.)
djc@sun.uucp (David J. Cardinal) (12/11/84)
> The DB/one is a nice little machine - a lot packed in a small > package. The screen is definitely a little hard to read under > less than optimum light conditions. There is a glare screen > which is removable, and you can adjust the darkness of the LCD > display, but never quite as dark and clear as I would like. > I will second that, with the additional caveat that since the display is LCD, and you are not in fact adjusting the "darkness", but the "angle", it is difficult for more than one person to read the display simultaneously. I have been playing with a CT Workslate, and it has the same problem. My decision is whether it is worth the big dollars for the DG/one or to live with the inconvenience of the CT for now, in hopes of better laptops. I think the 1200b built-in is 6-9 months (the chips are announced, just that little matter of delivery and product integration), and probably some advance in screen technology will also occur. Does anyone have any work on the Morrow Pivot or the ACT Apricot? They are rumored to be competitive with the DG, and perhaps not as expensive (the DG goes WAY UP when you add in all the good stuff!). --dave cardinal