uahfxg01@ASNUAH.ASN.NET ("FRANK GOSSETT") (03/08/90)
Does anyone know of a version of Unix that will run on a PDP 11/23 with 256 RAM and 2 RLO2s. I've received this machine with an old RT11 version on it and don't feel up to learning this OS. Someone suggested I upgrade it to an 11/73 and possibly run bsd's public domain version (2.1 I think). Who should I contact about this bsd information and approx. how much would an upgrade to an 11/73 cost? I would prefer to run Unix on the system as is if possible. Is it worth the time and effort to investigate these questions? Thanks, Frank Gossett Bnet: uahfxg01@uahvax1 Inet: uahfxg01@asnuah.asn.net
randy@rls.UUCP (Randall L. Smith) (03/10/90)
In article <Added.sZxUIg200jZd49g096@andrew.cmu.edu>, uahfxg01@ASNUAH.ASN.NET ("FRANK GOSSETT") writes: > Does anyone know of a version of Unix that will run on a PDP 11/23 > with 256 RAM and 2 RLO2s. I've received this machine with an old RT11 > version on it and don't feel up to learning this OS. Aw, come-on... You got something against Artie's (RT's) three letter commands? :-) And they say Unix is cryptic. Sheesh. > Someone suggested I upgrade it to an 11/73 and possibly run bsd's > public domain version (2.1 I think). Who should I contact about > this bsd information and approx. how much would an upgrade to an > 11/73 cost? This will cost you a bundle as you have an 18 bit backplane and the 73 is a 22 bit backplane. If you had a 23 Plus it would be more reasonable. Only the cost of the board swap. The 73 is a better machine though. Maybe cost you $2,500, US just for a used processor board, KDJ11-BB in Digital Basics. Now add $4,200 for a meg of memory... Hope you like segmented architecture, cause thats all ya get. A whole box maybe $5-$6K. Oh, you want a disk.... > I would prefer to run Unix on the system as is if possible. Good choice. > Is it worth the time and effort to investigate these questions? Probably not as they suck power like there's no tomorrow. You could pick up a nice 386 with scads of memory and disk for the same price with a CPU thats three times as fast with virtual memory. No contest. > Thanks, De nada. Cheers! - randy Usenet: randy@rls.uucp Bangpath: ...<backbone>!osu-cis!rls!randy Internet: rls!randy@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
erf@blake.acs.washington.edu (John Firestone) (03/11/90)
Sigh. Another PDP-11/RT-11 basher. When will these guys realize that some of us like to live in the past (before the 8080/CPM and its descendents)? [As your correspondent grins and continues typing on his Sparcstation. . . .] What follows are a few corrections regarding PDP-11's and RT-11, and a request for more information about migrating to something more modern. > Aw, come-on... You got something against Artie's (RT's) three letter > commands? :-) And they say Unix is cryptic. Sheesh. For many, many years, RT-11 has had a command processor that allows commands to be spelled out in full or abbreviated to the minimum ambiguous length (e.g. PRINT FOO.C, PRIN FOO.C, PR FOO.C). These include many non-intuitive command names and options like DIRECTORY, TYPE/NOLOG, COPY/VERIFY and RENAME. Many of these commands take arguments which may be included on the command line or omitted. If omitted, RT-11 will later ask for what it needs. Having spent about a month trying to recollect the "print aliases and paths" command under UNIX, the full English word "which", I think it safe to say that RT-11 has a long way to go before its commands are more cryptic than those from UNIX. On the other hand, as someone who recently wrote a "make" program for RT-11 (don't laugh, people are actually paying money for it!), RT-11's command line processor is a pain in the neck to interface programs to. > This will cost you a bundle as you have an 18 bit backplane and the 73 > is a 22 bit backplane. If you had a 23 Plus it would be more > reasonable. Since the Q-bus is so slow, it is not that hard to convert an 18-bit backplane to 22-bits, just { 4 wires } x { the number of slots }. In fact, with the right tool, you can even wirewrap DEC's non-wirewrap backplanes. If you would rather not perform a midnight wiring job, replacement backplanes are not all that expensive. This just leaves: > Only the cost of the board swap. The 73 is a better machine though. > Maybe cost you $2,500, US just for a used processor board, KDJ11-BB in > Digital Basics. Now add $4,200 for a meg of memory... Hope you like > segmented architecture, cause thats all ya get. I bet even if you bought this stuff from the Department of Defense it would be cheaper than this (well, maybe not). A KDJ11-A will probably work fine in place of the KDJ11-BB and can be had at half the price. If you know anyone who is buying Q-bus memory at $4000 per megabyte, send him my way. Have I got a deal for him. ;-) For a while, Q-bus memory boards were *cheaper* than the IBM MCA flavor. I could go on about "excessive" system power requirements, one of the neat deals you might be able to get on a PDP-11 source code license (does $400 sound o.k.? How about free?) but I have probably written enough. Believe it or not, I am interested in migrating from a PDP-11 to a more modern UNIX system (perhaps a 386). Does anyone care to continue this particular thread? John Firestone glug@geophys.washington.edu
sik@grosz.wpd.sgi.com (Seth Katz) (03/13/90)
In article <Added.sZxUIg200jZd49g096@andrew.cmu.edu>, uahfxg01@ASNUAH.ASN.NET ("FRANK GOSSETT") writes: > Does anyone know of a version of Unix that will run on a PDP 11/23 > with 256 RAM and 2 RLO2s. I've received this machine with an old RT11 > version on it and don't feel up to learning this OS. I used to work for a company know for its PC unixes that ported a version 7-like unix with berkeley utilities to the decpro 350. I was lead to understand that the decpro 350 was very close to the pdp 11/23 (an assumption that is reenforced by seeing this posting in the dec micros group). I don't know if they ever sold it or not, but it worked fine for me. If your RL02 packs aren't brand new (and handled carefully all their little lives) I suspect you won't get far with them. If you've never used such an animal before, have a look at the little bar on the top of the pack. If they do work, you might still be better off dumping them... The 20 megs you have won't go far for the trouble they'll cause. There are a surprising number of used equipment companies that are interested in paying cash money for old dec stuff, even 11/23's and RL02 packs. Think about it. But don't listen to those whiners who complain about energy use. A pdp is a friend indeed in the winter.
beaulieu@gca.UUCP (Larry Beaulieu) (03/17/90)
In article <10394@rls.UUCP>, randy@rls.UUCP (Randall L. Smith) writes: > The 73 is a better machine though. Usually, if you take advantage of it; but not always if you're doing 'real' real time - the cache will kill you if you're not careful. In those cases, you will usually get a more deterministic response (and save $$$) by using one of the non-caching CPU's - a MICRO-11/23/53/53+. > Maybe cost you $2,500, US just for a used processor board, KDJ11-BB in > Digital Basics. Now add $4,200 for a meg of memory... Hope you like > segmented architecture, cause thats all ya get. $4,200 for a 1 meg Q-bus memory board? Someone's a thief. Given that I have 11/53's (and an 11/73) spinning their wheels, how DOES one go about getting a copy of 2.9/2.10 BSD? How much $$$ would it cost? Not that it matters, but these guys are currently running RSX-11M+ using I/D space. It would run on the following (approximate) configuration: 11/53 w/2.5 MB memory (or 11/73 w/2 or 4MB in 11/53 chassis, in order to support 2 hard drives internally) Mix/match of 2 RD31/RD32 (RQDX3, natch...) RX50's or single RX33 DEQNA TK50 (ugh!) and/or Cipher M880 w/Emulex TC02 Emulex CS02 (maybe) Point me in the right direction and push me off; I'll take it from there when time permits... -- Larry Beaulieu ...uunet!gca!beaulieu SMTS/Software Engineer GCA Corporation, "Live to step, step to live..." Andover, MA The usual disclaimers apply.
randy@rls.UUCP (Randall L. Smith) (03/20/90)
> Summary: What if you already HAVE the 11/73? Then you run RSX. :-) In article <333@gca.UUCP>, beaulieu@gca.UUCP (Larry Beaulieu) writes: >In article <10394@rls.UUCP>, randy@rls.UUCP (Randall L. Smith) writes: >> The 73 is a better machine though. Yep. I'll stand by that. BTW, relative to a 11/23 running Unix. > Usually, if you take advantage of it; but not always if you're doing > 'real' real time - the cache will kill you if you're not careful. > In those cases, you will usually get a more deterministic response (and > save $$$) by using one of the non-caching CPU's - a MICRO-11/23/53/53+. Sure, but switch from RSX to go to Unix for real-time? RSX, the only operating system in the known universe that allows you to assign your process a higher priority than the kernel. We're talking all the control you want with RSX. It's not crude (read: non-luxuriant) for nothin'. My original reply was to a fellow that asked about Unix on a PDP 11/23 or trade in the 11/23 for an 11/73. Naturally my comments were geared to the merits of running Unix in, what appeared to me as, a home environment. BTW, a poster complained about my comments on power consumption and offered no contribution seems to be the whiner to me. Especially, when I was only trying to help somebody. It was price and performance that was central to my argument, not power consumption. Obviously, there are *much* better ways of heating your house. {snarl} >> Maybe cost you $2,500, US just for a used processor board, KDJ11-BB in >> Digital Basics. Now add $4,200 for a meg of memory... Hope you like >> segmented architecture, cause thats all ya get. > > $4,200 for a 1 meg Q-bus memory board? Someone's a thief. No, someone just goofed up. That price is for the KDJ11-BB *and* one (1) MB memory *in* a BA23-A. Oooops. I never read that catalogue right. Anyway the price is more around $650 for a meg of MSV11-QA. A re-read of that price does sound ludecrus since the *processor* is $2,500. In a very nasal voice, sorry about that chief. BTW, for the record, I do *not* speak for Digital Basics. I just misquote their catalogue contents. :-} > Given that I have 11/53's (and an 11/73) spinning their wheels, > how DOES one go about getting a copy of 2.9/2.10 BSD? How much > $$$ would it cost? Not that it matters, but these guys are > currently running RSX-11M+ using I/D space. What, you don't like MCR? Gee whiz. To more directly answer your question though, it is Copyright (C) Board of Regents, Univ. of California, at Berkeley. Cheers! - randy Usenet: randy@rls.uucp Bangpath: ...<backbone>!osu-cis!rls!randy Internet: rls!randy@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu