davidb@Pacer.UUCP (David Barts) (07/13/90)
First of all, thanks to all who responded. I guess I was unclear in my posting -- we are running Novell on ARCNET and PC-NFS on Ethernet, so the PC in question has *two* network cards -- an Arcnet card for Novell and an Ethernet card for PC-NFS. Most responses seemed to think I wanted to share a single Ethernet card between the two networks. Still, the numerous replies that you can run Novell and PC-NFS together on the same card makes me confident that I can run both on different cards, since both cards look as if they can be installed in a system without conflicting with each other. I received responses from: hedrick@cs.rutgers.edu, jpq@laue.ms.nwu.edu, fluke!sun!apple!netcom!jbreeden, randy@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu, pilchuck!uunet!mcsun!syteke!jim, uw-beaver!harvard!vax.ftp.com!fks, manoj@novell.com, and brian@netware.com. (This list excludes the `me toos,' and my apologies if anyone's response slipped through a crack in my overflowimg mailbox. The replies totaled more than 32K, so I don't have room to include all of them here, so I am going to quote a few of the more exhaustive replies, and omit the smaller ones and redundencies: ---------------- fluke!sun!apple!netcom!jbreeden writes ---------------- In article <314@pacer.UUCP> you write: >I normally try to stay away from the MS-DOS systems at work * , but today >the story emerged that the manager of a group that does development >with a Novell network of PC's wants to be able to have access to files >on our UNIX systems, which are already networked with TCP/IP and NFS. > You should get a few hundred responses, but this works too (and it's used by LOTS 'O folks). (LOTS 'O <- techie term). ____________________ | Novell | Sun | | Netware | PC-NFS | -------------------- | Clarkson | | Packet Driver | -------------------- | Ethernet card | | | --|||||------------- This is the user workstation (ie: MSDOS). Yes you're running both protocols on the same pc, at the same time, not needing to re-boot. Both PC-NFS and Netware are running on top of the Clarkson Packet Driver. It's a multi- protocol muxing MAC driver (supports about 15 20 cards w/ Version 6a). Netware is configured using the BYU packet driver shell generation code. PC-NFS talks to the packet driver using the NFS-KIT released by Sun East (SunSpot East) a few months ago (you can also use FTP's and Wollongong's IP too, they support the packet driver interface). Anyway, all the software is available (and public domain) from Clarkson University (sun.soe.clarkson - anonymous login). Take a look at it, I think it's just what you're looking for. I'd go into more detail, but folks on this newsgroup will probably send you more detail than you need. Good luck! -- John Robert Breeden, netcom!jbreeden@apple.com, apple!netcom!jbreeden, ATTMAIL:!jbreeden ------------------------------------------------------------------- "The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose from. If you don't like any of them, you just wait for next year's model." ---------------------------- end of message ---------------------------- --------------------- randy@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu writes -------------------- [rather lengthy quote of my post follows, which I have edited out - DWB] Well, actually, it *has* been done, though not by me. I've tried to get this setup working and though I've put many many hours into it, I can't for the life of me get it to work (yet). Geoff Arnold of SUN has written an unsupported device driver (pktd.sys) that allows you to run PC-NFS using a packet driver. In his later versions of this driver he has allowed for concurrent use of PC-NFS with Novell (you would have to be using BYU's Netware shell that works with the packet driver). There have been various notes (including mine) noting difficulties in getting this setup to work, and Geoff mentioned he would be putting a new distribution together in the following note that appeared in comp.protocols.nfs ... From: geoff@hinode.East.Sun.COM (Geoff Arnold @ Sun BOS - R.H. coast near the top) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.nfs Subject: Mostly: Re: PC-NFS and Novell revisited - but also Re: Me Message-ID: <2051@east.East.Sun.COM> Date: 18 Jun 90 00:31:45 GMT References: <12700002@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Sender: news@east.East.Sun.COM Reply-To: geoff@East.Sun.COM (Geoff Arnold @ Sun BOS - R.H. coast near the top) Organization: Sun Microsystems PC-NFS Engineering Lines: 27 Quoth randy@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (in <12700002@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>): # #I have heard rumours that #it *has* been done, and I'm sure Geoff has done it at least once 8-}. It has indeed been done by a number of folks. Rather than repost the same articles over and over again, I'll put together a new package including NDIS and packet drivers as well as emails from the people who have reported success. I'll send it to Clarkson and Baylor College and let you all know when it's ready. <text deleted> <end of note excerpt> ============================================================ I thought I saw a message later on from him saying that he had sent it all off to Clarkson, but I haven't seen it on sun.soe.clarkson.edu in pub/packet-drivers, which would be the most logical place for it - that's where pktd.sys has been distributed from in the past. Does anyone at SUN or clarkson have any info on this? Geoff is on vacation all during July in England, so we may be in for a long wait. But it seems probable that you could use the 3c503 packet driver to get it all running. John Breeden has just recently posted a modified pktd.asm in comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc that fixes a bug in Geoff's code. I haven't tried building a new pktd.sys with this yet, but if it works, I'll let it be known. ---------------------------- end of message ---------------------------- --------------- uw-beaver!harvard!vax.ftp.com!fks writes --------------- Netware and TCP/IP I am sending you James Van Bokkelen's last lengthy post on the subject. For option #1, you should keep in mind that, according to Geoff Arnold, PC-NFS is again available for the packet driver. There are three ways you can make Netware and TCP/IP usable from the same PC while using only one network interface card. Each has advantages and disadvantages, I sell one, but I'll list them in order of introduction: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. You can modify the IPX module so that it is possible to share the hardware interface, and use a TCP/IP protocol stack side-by-side with Netware. BICC Data networks did this first, initially with PC-IP and later with our PC/TCP product, but they didn't make their interface sharing spec public. Proteon did the same thing, but with a different, P1300-specific interface and our PC/TCP. We didn't want to write drivers for a dozen private interfaces, so John Romkey came up with the Packet Driver spec (which isn't specific to Netware, but has been most widely used with it) and published it. Later, Excelan did the same thing using a private interface and their ethernet board's on-board TCP/IP. You can build your Packet Driver into IPX.COM (Interlan, Gateway, Schneider & Koch, IMC Networks, Sytek, Univation and others), in which case you can stick with the normal, illegal, Netware encapsulation. As a second alternative, you can require that your users run ECONFIG, to make Netware use a legal 'Bluebook' packet, and build an IPX.COM which uses a separate Packet Driver to do its network I/O (Kelly McDonald's freeware SHELLDRV.OBJ from BYU does it this way). A third alternative is to use a dual mode (both Class 1, DIX Ethernet, and Class 11, 802.3 with 802.2 headers) Packet Driver, and have Netware use its normal encapsulation through Class 11, while IP uses Class 1. I believe work is in progress on this, but I haven't heard if it is finished yet. Advantages: Faster, no load on the server because the IP traffic goes direct to the other IP host. If the interface is Packet Driver and not proprietary, you can use either commercial or freeware TCP/IP stacks, as well as the freeware Packet Drivers from Clarkson. The exact TCP/IP features you get with this approach vary, depending on which TCP/IP package you use (PC/TCP, NCSA, PC-IP, KA9Q, WIN/PC, PC-NFS or BWTCP at the moment), but in general, this choice gives you the widest variety of applications (TN3270, RCP, TFTP etc.) to choose from. Disadvantages: The LAN you're connected to has to be one on which TCP/IP is widely used on (Ethernet, Starlan, ProNET-10, 802.5). The PC has to have an IP address, and the software has to be installed on it. Needs a separate PC running an FTP server to let hosts at the Netware server's files. NOTE: You get the same effect as if a Packet Driver was in use on 802.5 interfaces which support IBM's ASI software driver spec (TOKREUI or LAN Support Program). It is different in structure, but it serves the same purpose, of letting many protocol stacks use the same card at the same time. PC/TCP and IBM's DOS TCP/IP both support 802.5 via this interface. NOTE: Banyan VINES has supported this scheme of interface sharing on Ethernet since v2.10, with a private interface. 3Com 3+/Open and other derivatives of Microsoft's LAN Manager support the same scheme via the published NDIS software interface. 10Net/DCA does so via the Packet Driver spec. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. You can get the Interlan "gateway" product, and install it in your Netware server. This is an NP600 intelligent Ethernet card and software which acts as a high-level translating gateway between IPX protocols on one side and TCP/IP on the other. It supports Telnet and FTP from the workstation, and incoming FTP to the server. The Telnet user interface is via a user-supplied terminal emulation program on the PC. I am told that it supports 16 connections via a single server. Advantages: PC can use any Netware-supported media (Ethernet, Arcnet, Omninet, etc.) without consideration of whether or not IP is used on it. PCs don't have to have IP address (but some software must be installed on them). Other TCP/IP hosts can use FTP to connect directly to the server to access files there. Disadvantages: Can only use protocols the gateway understands (it can do normal Telnet, but not 3270-mode Telnet, for instance). Each active connection loads the gateway (and the server) some, and this approach will probably be the slowest of the 3 even when only one person is using it. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3. Wollongong has a version of WIN/PC which uses NETBIOS datagrams to transport either IP packets only, or any kind of Ethernet packet over Netware. They have published RFCs describing each protocol, but I don't know of anyone else who has yet implemented it. There have also been academic developments which I understand used different mechanisms to do roughly the same thing. Either requires a separate, (possibly dedicated) router to forward the IP packets onto an Ethernet or other TCP/IP media. Wollongong supplies a PC-based router which accomplishes this as a background process on a non-dedicated machine. Advantages: Can run any TCP/IP application which supports the interface, don't care what media the PC is using. Server is not loaded. Disadvantages: Must install software on individual PCs. A router is required, which may be a throughput bottleneck. Needs a separate PC running an FTP server to let hosts at the Netware server's files. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- So, there it is, as I understand it, today, April 27, 1990. James B. VanBokkelen 26 Princess St., Wakefield, MA 01880 FTP Software Inc. voice: (617) 246-0900 fax: (617) 246-0901 Frances Kirk Selkirk info@ftp.com (617) 246-0900 FTP Software, Inc. 26 Princess Street, Wakefield, MA 01880 ---------------------------- end of message ---------------------------- PC-NFS just arrived this afternoon, so the adventure is just about to begin... I'll report my war stories as they develop. -- David Barts Pacer Corporation, Bothell, WA davidb@pacer.uucp ...!uunet!pilchuck!pacer!davidb