OWEN@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU (Larry Owen) (02/05/91)
Hello. I am the campus network manager at Auburn University. Like most
universities, our campus net is a tcp/ip-based internet. Currently, all
the constituent nets are ethernets, but we are fixin' to (as we say down
here) connect our first token ring to the campus net. We use CUTCP/NCSA
for PCs on ethernets, and packet drivers to deal with Novell, but this
new token ring presents a problem for us. This department runs the IBM
PC LAN network operating system, and uses an OS/2 server.
I am far from an expert on PCs, but my understanding of the issues in
putting a tcp/ip stack on these machines is that there are 2 basic
approaches:
1. NetBIOS-over-tcp/ip. I don't like this one much because of
a) the performance hit, and b) I don't know of anyone offering
the server side (ie. OS/2) implementation.
2. A stack written to the ASI interface, allowing NetBIOS traffic
to be multiplexed with the ip traffic (using IBM's device drivers,
which, if I understand IBM's marketing, is the PC LAN Support
Program). The vendors that I *think* support this are FTP,
Wollongong, and IBM. Is this correct? Are there others?
What about U. of Maryland's stuff?
I guess what I'm looking for is a sanity check on my concept of this
particular little corner of the universe. Is there anything obviously
wrong-headed or factually incorrect about the above? Are there other
ways of achieving PC LAN and tcp/ip coexistence? Thanks in advance
for shedding any light you can. Replies to me, and I'll summarize
to the list.
Larry Owen Bitnet: owen@auducvax
Campus Network Administrator Internet: owen@ducvax.auburn.edu
Auburn University Phone: (205) 844-4110meyer@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Don Meyer) (02/06/91)
OWEN@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU (Larry Owen) writes: >new token ring presents a problem for us. This department runs the IBM >PC LAN network operating system, and uses an OS/2 server. I assume this means you're using IBM LAN Server. >I am far from an expert on PCs, but my understanding of the issues in >putting a tcp/ip stack on these machines is that there are 2 basic >approaches: > ... > 2. A stack written to the ASI interface, allowing NetBIOS traffic > to be multiplexed with the ip traffic (using IBM's device drivers, > which, if I understand IBM's marketing, is the PC LAN Support > Program). The vendors that I *think* support this are FTP, > Wollongong, and IBM. Is this correct? Are there others? > What about U. of Maryland's stuff? Well, We have a similar setup, and we use an *old* version of IBM's tcp/ip suite for DOS. Now, the local IBM rep is recommending the UMaryland suite -- they say they even use it. The FTP system is supposed to work, as well, but I have never tried it. Also, if you have IBM PCATs, you can use the Clarkson packet drivers in tandem with the DOS LAN Requestor portion of LAN Server. However, we have found that the packet drivers do not work in tandem when used on PS/2s, nor on our PCs with accererator adapters. (For some strange reason...) As for the OS/2 machine(s), IBM & FTP sell tcp/ip suites for OS/2 -- we haven't tried either. >Larry Owen Bitnet: owen@auducvax >Campus Network Administrator Internet: owen@ducvax.auburn.edu >Auburn University Phone: (205) 844-4110 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Don Meyer internet: dlmeyer@uiuc.edu "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin 1759
spexet@ux.acs.umn.edu (D. Robert Spexet II) (02/06/91)
In article <1991Feb5.182711.18532@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> meyer@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Don Meyer) writes: > >Well, We have a similar setup, and we use an *old* version of IBM's tcp/ip >suite for DOS. Now, the local IBM rep is recommending the UMaryland suite >-- they say they even use it. The FTP system is supposed to work, as well, but >I have never tried it. > >Also, if you have IBM PCATs, you can use the Clarkson packet drivers in tandem >with the DOS LAN Requestor portion of LAN Server. However, we have found that >the packet drivers do not work in tandem when used on PS/2s, nor on our PCs >with accererator adapters. (For some strange reason...) That's kinda strange. For a time, we were using the router portion of IBM's TCP/IP suite for OS/2 to route TCP/IP traffic between the local token ring and the campus ethernet. The router was running on a PS/2 Model 80 along with the OS/2 LAN Server software, and the workstations were all PS/2 Model 55SXs, run- ning the DOS LAN Requester for the OS/2 LAN Server. For client software, we were all using Clarkson University TCP (their custom- modified version of NCSA Telnet, highly recommended if all you want is Telnet and FTP) along with the IBMTOKEN packet driver. The combination worked just great. Just make sure that you invoke the packet driver *before* invoking the "NET START" command for the DOS LAN Requester. Otherwise, the packet driver won't like the fact that the DLR opened the TR adapter before it did. > >As for the OS/2 machine(s), IBM & FTP sell tcp/ip suites for OS/2 -- we haven't >tried either. See above. > >>Larry Owen Bitnet: owen@auducvax >>Campus Network Administrator Internet: owen@ducvax.auburn.edu >>Auburn University Phone: (205) 844-4110 > >+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > Don Meyer internet: dlmeyer@uiuc.edu >"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary >safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin 1759 -D. Robert Spexet II, Post Office Box 14909, Minneapolis, Minnesota 55414-0909 Internet: spexet@ux.acs.umn.edu BITNET: spexet@umnacux.BITNET UUCP: rutgers!umn-cs!ux.acs.umn.edu!spexet
meyer@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Don Meyer) (02/07/91)
spexet@ux.acs.umn.edu (D. Robert Spexet II) writes: >For client software, we were all using Clarkson University TCP (their custom- >modified version of NCSA Telnet, highly recommended if all you want is Telnet >and FTP) along with the IBMTOKEN packet driver. >The combination worked just great. Just make sure that you invoke the packet >driver *before* invoking the "NET START" command for the DOS LAN Requester. >Otherwise, the packet driver won't like the fact that the DLR opened the TR >adapter before it did. We have PS/2 model 50s & 80s, and its the DLR that doesn't like the fact that the packet driver opens the TR driver before it does. (What we get is a report of a NETBIOS ERROR.) The PCs we have, with Microsoft Mach20 accelerator boards, simply lock up on packet driver initialization. >-D. Robert Spexet II, Post Office Box 14909, Minneapolis, Minnesota 55414-0909 > Internet: spexet@ux.acs.umn.edu > BITNET: spexet@umnacux.BITNET > UUCP: rutgers!umn-cs!ux.acs.umn.edu!spexet +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Don Meyer internet: dlmeyer@uiuc.edu "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin 1759
spexet@ux.acs.umn.edu (D. Robert Spexet II) (02/07/91)
In article <1991Feb6.161521.25372@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> meyer@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Don Meyer) writes: > >We have PS/2 model 50s & 80s, and its the DLR that doesn't like the fact that >the packet driver opens the TR driver before it does. (What we get is a report >of a NETBIOS ERROR.) > Hmm. I wonder what is happening. Could it possibly be some other device driver that you have loaded? The only device drivers that we use on our systems are QEMM, SMARTDRV, and the token-ring adapter drivers (otherwise known as the PC LAN Support Program, if you like to talk like IBM does.) One thing we did notice was that the system seemed to work the best when no extraneous options are used with the three adapter drivers. If no options are used with the three adapter drivers (that is, there are no options at the end of the "device=dxm...." lines in the config.sys file, then everything seems to work just fine. When our copy of the OS/2 TCP/IP suite arrives from IBM (we had a loaner copy, and had to return it. The copy that we are supposed to get is 4 to 6 weeks backordered, according to our IBM customer rep), I plan to reinstall the router daemon on our file server again, so that we can have TCP/IP client services again from our token ring network. If you'd like, I can e-mail copies of the config.sys, autoexec.bat and doslan.ini files, so that you can see how our systems are configured. Perhaps this will help in your problems. Also: I assume that you are using IBM Token Ring adapter boards. >The PCs we have, with Microsoft Mach20 accelerator boards, simply lock up on >packet driver initialization. I have no idea what may be causing this, other than the accelerator boards. > >+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > Don Meyer internet: dlmeyer@uiuc.edu >"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary >safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin 1759 -D. Robert Spexet II, Post Office Box 14909, Minneapolis, Minnesota 55414-0909 Internet: spexet@ux.acs.umn.edu BITNET: spexet@umnacux.BITNET UUCP: rutgers!umn-cs!ux.acs.umn.edu!spexet
meyer@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Don Meyer) (02/08/91)
spexet@ux.acs.umn.edu (D. Robert Spexet II) writes: >In article <1991Feb6.161521.25372@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> meyer@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Don Meyer) writes: >> >>We have PS/2 model 50s & 80s, and its the DLR that doesn't like the fact that >>the packet driver opens the TR driver before it does. (What we get is a report >>of a NETBIOS ERROR.) >> >Could it possibly be some other device driver that you have loaded? No, the situation exists independant of any other drivers in the system. >The only device drivers that we use on our systems are QEMM, SMARTDRV, and the >token-ring adapter drivers (otherwise known as the PC LAN Support Program, if >you like to talk like IBM does.) One thing we did notice was that the system >seemed to work the best when no extraneous options are used with the three >adapter drivers. If no options are used with the three adapter drivers (that >is, there are no options at the end of the "device=dxm...." lines in the >config.sys file, then everything seems to work just fine. Thanks for the hint - I hadn't messed around with the defaults. Removing the ST=12 parameter from the DXMT0MOD.SYS (Netbios module) allows the DLR to correctly load after the packet driver initialization. All is well now with the PS/2s. >-D. Robert Spexet II, Post Office Box 14909, Minneapolis, Minnesota 55414-0909 > Internet: spexet@ux.acs.umn.edu > BITNET: spexet@umnacux.BITNET > UUCP: rutgers!umn-cs!ux.acs.umn.edu!spexet +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Don Meyer internet: dlmeyer@uiuc.edu "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin 1759
PIRARD%vm1.ulg.ac.be@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (Andr'e PIRARD) (02/08/91)
On Mon, 4 Feb 91 15:25:00 CST Larry Owen said: >... >approaches: > 2. A stack written to the ASI interface, allowing NetBIOS traffic > to be multiplexed with the ip traffic (using IBM's device drivers, > which, if I understand IBM's marketing, is the PC LAN Support > Program). The vendors that I *think* support this are FTP, > Wollongong, and IBM. Is this correct? Are there others? > What about U. of Maryland's stuff? Yes, both OS/2 CM and PC's LAN support program are of the best OSI layering and will multiplex (these) network protocols. For OS/2, IBM's TCP/IP should be the standard for the other layers. For the PC, use the T/R packet drivers on top on LAN SP, for example. Only one of the possibilities, unhappily. I wish a standard be established on the PC for common data link, network and transport APIs so that PC TCP/IP application writers could concentrate on applications, administrators install and configure these interfaces "once in a life" and users choose any application and install them at minimal risk. Of a stack of choice, I see DIS, the packet drivers and FTP Software's socket API. The application API should support the multitasking additions to MSDOS, mainly DESQview and MS Windows, for true TCP/IP on MSDOS. Take MacTCP as an example. Andr'e PIRARD SEGI, Univ. de Li`ege B26 - Sart Tilman B-4000 Li`ege 1 (Belgium) pirard@vm1.ulg.ac.be or PIRARD%BLIULG11.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU