hundt@wind.UUCP (11/26/87)
Ladies and Gentlemen, could you please tell me something. Just
what is the big deal about hypercard? A guy in the lab here has
a copy (albeit no documentation) and he showed it to us. Seems
like a free-form user interface that allows entry to programs
via "buttons". Doesn't seem to conform to the standard Mac user
interface, and has the potential for a very messy screen (ie.
buttons and things all over the place).
Questions:
Is there a new programming language/environment that is inherent
in hypercard? Or is it merely some sort of graphical menu manager?
What exactly is a "stack"? It appears to be a bunch of similar
records in a file. Is this correct? And why is it innovative to
have them?
Is it true Apple is giving the thing away? Can I get a copy for
myself easily? How? (I heard that Bill Atkinson had it in his
contract that this be done.)
Is it easy to add stacks, functions, etc. to the hypercard screen,
or do you have to be a programmer to do this?
Are there subprograms/stacks being distributed in some sort of
public domain way, like fonts and desk-accessories seem to be,
ie. all development is "for the public good" or are they being
sold as add-ons and you only buy the ones you need?
Can you run standard applications as hypercard applications (ie.
from within hypercard via buttons or whatever)?
What is this leading toward? Is the aim to create one big huge
integrated environment which will ultimately supplant the current
finder/system environment?
I'd appreciate answers to these questions and whatever general
information you care to add. I'm trying to understand what's been
going on with the Mac recently and hypercard in particular (esp. since
Apple is calling it a very important "strategic" product).
Thanks!
/-^-\ Thomas M. Hundt / BELLCORE Morristown NJ / hundt@bellcore.bellcore.com
| | {seismo|ihnp4|ucbvax|decvax|ulysses|allegra|clyde}!bellcore!hundt
/--_--\ dlw@hpsmtc1.HP.COM (David Williams) (11/30/87)
ok read Infoworld,Macworld the Wall Street Journal or even MacUser...all have extensively covered Hypercard in one form or another. Or better still go thru the Intro stack for hypercard and browse around thru the help stack your associate has.
chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (11/30/87)
>Ladies and Gentlemen, could you please tell me something. Just >what is the big deal about hypercard? This may sound silly, but if you don't understand the big deal about hypercard, I suggest you go off and re-implement it. >Is there a new programming language/environment that is inherent >in hypercard? Or is it merely some sort of graphical menu manager? A new and complete programming language. You won't understand the wonders of hypercard until you start playing with hypertalk >What exactly is a "stack"? It appears to be a bunch of similar >records in a file. Is this correct? And why is it innovative to >have them? Actually, it's a bunch of records in a file. They don't need to be similar -- you can put a number of different backgrounds in the same stack and link them together. >Is it true Apple is giving the thing away? Can I get a copy for >myself easily? How? You get it free if you buy a Mac. you get it for $49 if you already own one. >Is it easy to add stacks, functions, etc. to the hypercard screen, >or do you have to be a programmer to do this? It depends on how complicated you want to get. It can be as easy as point and click, or as complicated as writing your own assembly language XFCN. >Are there subprograms/stacks being distributed in some sort of >public domain way, like fonts and desk-accessories seem to be, >ie. all development is "for the public good" or are they being >sold as add-ons and you only buy the ones you need? Yes. Both routes are being used. Most stackware I've seen is PD or shareware, but some commercial code is due out as well. I expect that six months from now there will be LOTS of it from all sides. >Can you run standard applications as hypercard applications (ie. >from within hypercard via buttons or whatever)? yes. There are a number of different 'finder' replacements from Hypercard. Multi-finder process spawning via an XFCN is around here somewhere, too. >What is this leading toward? Is the aim to create one big huge >integrated environment which will ultimately supplant the current >finder/system environment? Maybe. Maybe not. Hypercard may well supplant many traditional applications, and depending on what you want may turn into your startup application. I don't see any reason (or plan) to force that on folks. >I'd appreciate answers to these questions and whatever general >information you care to add. I'm trying to understand what's been >going on with the Mac recently and hypercard in particular (esp. since >Apple is calling it a very important "strategic" product). There's lots of controversy over the 'system software' and 'strategic software' labels. I think it comes down to something very simple. The Mac was the first Apple that didn't have an easy way for someone to diddle with the computer. Apple ][ had Applesoft. The Mac had MacPaint. Macpaint is neat, but you aren't playing with the computer. Hypercard gives you that capability -- to just sit and explore the computer. To start off at a very simple, reasonably non-technical level and putter. Until now, you couldn't putter on your Mac. you had to sit down and be a programmer. That's changed, and I think it's the most important addition to the Mac family since day one. Because now lots of us (and I put myself in that category very firmly) who have always wanted to build a 'something' on the Mac can. We no longer have to worry about learning enough programming to handle all the grotty details the Mac Interface requires of us. We can putter, and become as much of a programmer as we need to finish our something. Before, you could spend days getting the environment started before even being able to start the 'something' part -- which for folks without a lot of time or patience is deadly. With Hypercard, that all changes. you just sit down and put the pieces together. And thn start looking at ways of making it better. Most folks with computers aren't hardcore hackers. They want to use it for a few serious tasks and work on some fun projects in the background. Hypercard opens up the ability to putter to a large number of folks who are unwilling or unable to take the time to learn enough about programming the Mac to make it happen. Hypercard IS Applesoft for the Mac, written to take advantage of the strengths of the Mac as Applesoft did for the ][. The next year should be fascinating. chuq --- Chuq "Fixed in 4.0" Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ
grady@eden.UUCP (12/04/87)
In article <35045@sun.uucp> chuq@sun.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: >>Is it true Apple is giving the thing away? Can I get a copy for >>myself easily? How? > >You get it free if you buy a Mac. you get it for $49 if you already own one. Last I heard (in a videotape of a conference by one of the author's), it is unprotected, and giving away copies is encouraged. Steven grady@postgres.berkeley.edu ...!ucbvax!grady
cs162fed@sdcc18.UUCP (12/05/87)
In article <5204@zen.berkeley.edu> grady@postgres.berkeley.edu (Steven Grady) writes: >Last I heard (in a videotape of a conference by one of the author's), >it is unprotected, and giving away copies is encouraged. No, Grady, Apple holds and enforces the copyright on HyperCard. On some of their system software (like MultiFinder) they offer free distribution through licensed channels (like CompuServe). But Apple requires that HyperCard be purchased, separately or as part of a Mac system. Greg grobbins%sdemlab@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu
hammen@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Robert Joseph Hammen) (12/09/87)
In article <5204@zen.berkeley.edu> grady@postgres.berkeley.edu (Steven Grady) writes: >>>Is it true Apple is giving the thing away? Can I get a copy for >>>myself easily? How? >> >>You get it free if you buy a Mac. you get it for $49 if you already own one. > >Last I heard (in a videotape of a conference by one of the author's), >it is unprotected, and giving away copies is encouraged. What you may be referring to is a comment made by Bill Atkinson at a "User Group Breakfast" session at MacWorld/Boston. Someone who was a BBS sysop was complaining that everyone had to have a copy of HyperCard to use stacks, and urged Atkinson to produce a run-time version. Atkinson replied "Well, if the $49 is really a problem, HyperCard is not copy-protected." It was interesting to see the faces of some of the Apple people there turn red... ========================================================================= Robert Hammen Computer Applications, Inc. hammen@csd4.milw.wisc.edu Delphi: HAMMEN GEnie: R.Hammen CI$: 70701,2104
pozar@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Pozar) (12/10/87)
hammen@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Robert Joseph Hammen) wrote: > In article <5204@zen.berkeley.edu> grady@postgres.berkeley.edu (Steven Grady) writes: > >>>Is it true Apple is giving the thing away? Can I get a copy for > >>>myself easily? How? > >> > >>You get it free if you buy a Mac. you get it for $49 if you already own one. > > > >Last I heard (in a videotape of a conference by one of the author's), > >it is unprotected, and giving away copies is encouraged. > > What you may be referring to is a comment made by Bill Atkinson at a "User > Group Breakfast" session at MacWorld/Boston. Someone who was a BBS sysop was > complaining that everyone had to have a copy of HyperCard to use stacks, and > urged Atkinson to produce a run-time version. Atkinson replied "Well, if the > $49 is really a problem, HyperCard is not copy-protected." It was interesting > to see the faces of some of the Apple people there turn red... For $49 you get a pretty good user's guide (my roommate wrote it, plug, plug) and the latest software. I kinda doubt that Apple is makeing a hell of a lot off of the retail price. I know that the 'profits' that are produced off of the direct purchase of the software was not the reason for it's development. Apple knows that hardware isn't worth the silicon in it unless there is some software to run on it. Hypercard (I liked the original name for it better, 'Wildcard') will make Apple more money off of the machines it will sell. Apple if it's smart, and I think it is thinking in this direction will look the other direction on copying. -- ======================================================================= | ...sun!hoptoad!\ Tim Pozar | | >fidogate!pozar Fido: 1:125/406 | | ...lll-winken!/ PaBell: (415) 788-3904 | | USNail: KKSF 77 Maiden Lane San Francisco CA 94108 | =======================================================================