marvel@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Howard P. Marvel) (04/07/89)
On the subject of HyperCard improvements, might it be possible to insert a new stack in the inheritance path? Suppose that we call it myHome (or ourHouse for the inveterate TV viewers). The stack could contain XCMDs, XFCNs and functions shared by subsidiary stacks without forcing the author to install these in the Home Stack, a la Focal Point II. Short of this, could one define symbolic resource links in stacks so at least Xcmds, icons, fonts and the like could be shared without having to load them multiple times? Secondly, could the Sound return a number as well as a name? Suppose that I have a script that synchronizes with sounds, but that the sounds are repetitive. I would like to do something like play sound1 put the number of the sound into foo play sound1 if the number of the sound is not foo then My alternative is to load the sound twice under different names, but my stacks are already too large. Finally, can anyone give me a pointer to a calculator that I can include in a stack? I have added the Apple Calculator DA to stacks and have arranged to open it from the stack, but I need to catch the value computed when the calculator is removed from the screen and I need to have a slightly more sophisticated program, one with exponentiation and grouping. It needs to be public domain and source would be awfully nice. I don't want to use a calculator written in Hypertalk, since that would require going to a separate card. I am setting the cantModify to true, so I have to save and restore the state of any work in process whenever I leave for a card. That's a pain and slow, too. Hence the DA request, though a DA converted to an XCMD is obviously preferable. For the exceptionally curious, the reason the DA is attached to the stack is that my HyperCard stacks must run on a two floppy SE setup given the configurations of our student labs. That leaves no room on the System-HyperCard-Home startup diskette. It also makes for Rice Crispies sound (snap-crackle-pop). Thanks for any help.
jdevoto@Apple.COM (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) (04/07/89)
In article <42120@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> Howard P. Marvel <marvel@cis.ohio-state.edu> writes: > >Finally, can anyone give me a pointer to a calculator that I can >include in a stack? I have added the Apple Calculator DA to stacks >and have arranged to open it from the stack, but I need to catch the >value computed when the calculator is removed from the screen and I >need to have a slightly more sophisticated program, one with >exponentiation and grouping. ... Although many people are not aware of this feature, HyperCard will evaluate any expression (including a mathematical expression) typed into the message box. Personally, I find this more congenial (especially for complex calculations) than using a "push-button" calculator, since you can edit the contents of the message box before you press Return to evaluate the expression. Also, it has the advantage of being available whenever the message box is showing, and you can copy the result either manually or via a script. jeanne a. e. devoto jdevoto@apple.com
marvel@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Howard P. Marvel) (04/07/89)
In article <28516@apple.Apple.COM>, jdevoto@Apple.COM (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) writes: (repeat of my request for a calculator omitted) > Although many people are not aware of this feature, HyperCard will > evaluate any expression (including a mathematical expression) typed > into the message box. Personally, I find this more congenial (especially > for complex calculations) than using a "push-button" calculator, since > you can edit the contents of the message box before you press Return > to evaluate the expression. Also, it has the advantage of being available > whenever the message box is showing, and you can copy the result either > manually or via a script. > > jeanne a. e. devoto > jdevoto@apple.com Ah yes, but this calculator will be used by a roomful of undergraduates, many of whom have not so much as SEEN a Macintosh before. During my last quarter training session with such a group, a number of them insisted on running the mouse off the edge of their work tables, while others complained that the mouse would not work when moved while suspended several feet above the tables. And I am to offer them a message box? In fact, I trap for the menubar and message box, set the cantmodify, provide a custom home stack and a fully bundled setup with elaborate attempts to keep them from having to deal with file dialogs and the like. They place diskettes in the SE, start the machine, and the application begins without their initially needing to do anything except find the power switch. If they need to print on a network, they get a list of available printers via a hypercard field -- no chooser. That's why I want a calculator that looks like a calculator. I suppose that I could construct a pseudo message box -- i.e. give them a field for their formula -- but somehow I think the exercise might be more memorable if they punch buttons. By the way, even though these students by and large haven't seen a Mac before, most of them are hooked by the end of an hour. In fact, for most, they are hooked as soon as the computer addresses them by name.
mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) (04/07/89)
In article <42156@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu>, marvel@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Howard P. Marvel) writes: > Ah yes, but this calculator will be used by a roomful of > undergraduates, many of whom have not so much as SEEN a Macintosh > before. During my last quarter training session with such a group, a > number of them insisted on running the mouse off the edge of their > work tables, while others complained that the mouse would not work > when moved while suspended several feet above the tables. And I am to > offer them a message box? In fact, I trap for the menubar and message > box, set the cantmodify, provide a custom home stack and a fully > bundled setup with elaborate attempts to keep them from having to deal > with file dialogs and the like. They place diskettes in the SE, start > the machine, and the application begins without their initially > needing to do anything except find the power switch. If they need to > print on a network, they get a list of available printers via a > hypercard field -- no chooser... What a shame. It seems like a crime to hide the Macintosh interface from the user. It's ease of use is one of its strong point. I think that the effort would be better spent teaching the students how to make the most of the Finder and the rest of the "real Mac". > By the way, even though these students by and large haven't seen a Mac > before, most of them are hooked by the end of an hour. In fact, for > most, they are hooked as soon as the computer addresses them by name. As of about a year ago, I had never seen a Mac before. Within two months, I was using PageMaker, Microsoft Word, SuperPaint, HyperCard, etc. Within a year, I accepted a job with Apple as their student representative on campus because of my knowledge. Yes, it is easy to get hooked on the Macintosh. But it is that fact that makes the machine so easy to learn. Most students don't need to be held by the hand. They are in school (supposedly) because they have intelligence. Of course, some things may need to be explained to them (like how a mouse works). This reminds me of the data processing classes here at Ball State. Of course, they use IBM PCs and "teach" the students how to use Lotus 1-2-3, dBase III+, and Word Perfect. But to do this, they give them a sheet of keystroke by keystroke instructions to follow. Just to prove a point, I sat down at a machine with a set of these instructions, turned off the monitor, and still completed the assignment without a hitch (of course, I am a pretty good typist). -Michael Of course, these are my views and my views only. To Apple, I am only a number. To Ball State, I am just a source of income. -- Michael Niehaus UUCP: <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!mithomas Apple Student Rep ARPA: mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu Ball State University AppleLink: ST0374 (from UUCP: st0374@applelink.apple.com)
marvel@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Howard P Marvel) (04/07/89)
In article <6603@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) writes: >In article <42156@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu>, marvel@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Howard P. Marvel) writes: (rantings about how I hide the Mac interface from students) > >What a shame. It seems like a crime to hide the Macintosh interface from >the user. It's ease of use is one of its strong point. I think that the >effort would be better spent teaching the students how to make the most of >the Finder and the rest of the "real Mac". > Wrongo. I am NOT teaching computers. I am teaching economics. I want an intelligent toaster, not a computer. I want nothing to stand in the way of a student being able to experiment with various values input into an economics problem with visual feedback -- the dreaded economics graphs. If I were using the Mac to teach English via a wordprocessor or statistics with something like DataDesk (both of which are done at OSU), I would certainly spend some time on the interface, but then I'd be reserving a lab for a quarter and teaching the class in the lab. I don't do that. Instead, the students get a one hour orientation and a set of diskettes. The lab has public hours and I treat it like a library -- the students are free to use the resource if and only if they find it useful. I want them to come back, but I don't want to force them to do so. That is why I have to hook them immediately, which I do. >> By the way, even though these students by and large haven't seen a Mac >> before, most of them are hooked by the end of an hour. In fact, for >> most, they are hooked as soon as the computer addresses them by name. > >As of about a year ago, I had never seen a Mac before. Within two months, >I was using PageMaker, Microsoft Word, SuperPaint, HyperCard, etc. Within >a year, I accepted a job with Apple as their student representative on >campus because of my knowledge. Yes, it is easy to get hooked on the >Macintosh. But it is that fact that makes the machine so easy to learn. > >Most students don't need to be held by the hand. They are in school >(supposedly) because they have intelligence. Of course students have intelligence. They make intelligent choices about how to allocate their time. That is why I've got to convince them that the approach is useful. I could force them to do what I say, but wouldn't that in fact be underestimating their intelligence??? >Of course, some things may >need to be explained to them (like how a mouse works). Yeah, but this is what I want to keep to an absolute minimum > >This reminds me of the data processing classes here at Ball State. Of course, >they use IBM PCs and "teach" the students how to use Lotus 1-2-3, dBase III+, >and Word Perfect. The operative term here is "data processing classes." I do NOT want to teach "data processing classes."
alibaba@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Alexander M. Rosenberg) (04/13/89)
You are all overlooking the obvious answer to all your requests: GET SUPERCARD!!!!!! Graphic objects are supported. A calculator can be custom designed in a stack that runs independent of any of stack you may have running..... The list is endless... Read all about it in your favorite monthly or weekly. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Alexander M. Rosenberg - INTERNET: alibaba@ucscb.ucsc.edu - Yoyodyne - - Crown College, UCSC - UUCP:...!ucbvax!ucscc!ucscb!alibaba- Propulsion - - Santa Cruz, CA 95064 - BITNET:alibaba%ucscb@ucscc.BITNET - Systems - - (408) 426-8869 - Disclaimer: Nobody is my employer - :-) - - - so nobody cares what I say. - -
wsj3@apple.com (Will S. Johnston) (04/15/89)
SuperCard is a feature laden beast, however, it is lists for $200 and is a first version, so all new users become guinea pigs for Silicon Beach. Where as HyperCard is, and always has been free, also HyperCard 2.0 will be a feature laden beasts so you might want to save your money. HyperCard Team, Apple Computer Inc. MS 22-0 20525 Mariani Ave Cupertino, Ca 95014 (408) 974-0259 (I do not speak for Apple)
david@jc3b21.UUCP (David Quarles) (04/17/89)
From article <1404@internal.Apple.COM>, by wsj3@apple.com (Will S. Johnston): . . . > Where as HyperCard is, and always has been free, also HyperCard 2.0 will > be a feature laden beasts so you might want to save your money. . . . =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= HAVE THERE BEEN ANY PUBLISHED (or non-published) RELEASE DATES ?? ANY APPROXIMATE DATES ?? ANY RUMORS .... ?? =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Dave =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= EOT
taylorj@yvax.byu.edu (04/18/89)
That reminds me of another minor feature that would be nice. We have done things in HyperCard that are timed to coincide with music. The problem is that on large sounds, the load time is different on different machines (i.e. the sound starts playing a lot sooner on a Mac IIcx with a hard disk than on a Mac Plus with a floppy). It would help a whole lot if a new result were added to the "the sound" function to indicate the sound is loading. I.e. the results of "the sound" after a command like "play mySound" would be something like "loading" "loading" "mySound" "mySound" "mySound" "done" "done" ... This way a script would be able to tell pretty closely when the sound actually began playing. If anyone is interested, I have managed to solve some of this problem by using an XCMD to set the volume to 0, play the sound (thus loading it into memory), then setting the volume back up and playing it. Horrible kludge, but it helps! Jim Taylor Microcomputer Support for Curriculum 101 HRCB, Brigham Young University | BITNET: taylorj@byuvax.bitnet Provo, UT 84602 | INTERNET: taylorj@yvax.byu.edu
Rob.Weinberg@f444.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Rob Weinberg) (05/17/89)
Would it also work to play the sound the first time at a very fast tempo (say 9000)? Perhaps most sounds would be cut off before they could be heard. -- ------------------------------------------------------------- FidoNet: 1:161/445 UUCP: sun!apple!bmug!<User.Name> INTERNET: bmug!<User.Name>@apple.COM or <User.Name>@bmug.fidonet.org USNAIL: BMUG, 1442A Walnut St. #62, Berkeley, CA 94709-1496 ------------------------------------------------------------- BMUG Newsletter articles due June 15! Authors get free membership. Send articles to: pub@bmug.fidonet.org