jkc@apple.com (John Kevin Calhoun) (09/27/90)
Mike Holm, the HyperCard Product Manager, was the main guest in a
conference on CompuServe tonight, which was held to give developers
a chance to ask questions about HyperCard 2.0 and about the transition
of HyperCard to Claris.
Mike said that the version of the HyperCard 2.0 application that will
be bundled with Macintosh CPUs will be the full application, identical
to the one Claris will sell as part of their standalone product.
However, this version will come with just a few stacks and minimal
documentation.
Current users of HyperCard 1.x will be able to upgrade to 2.0 for
the previously announced price of $49. They will receive a package
that contains 4 disks and 2 manuals. Claris is not yet taking orders
for the upgrade package.
The pricing and configuration of the full standalone product has yet
to be determined.
In sum, it appears that the ability of the bundled version of HyperCard
2.0 to alter stacks, including the editing of scripts, will not be
fully documented in the bundled manuals, but will nevertheless be
available.
Please note that this posting is not an official announcement by
Apple or by Claris. I am merely reporting what was said tonight in
the public discussion on CompuServe, for the sole purpose of
bringing clarification to the masses before my mailbox bursts at
the seams.
I would like to thank those of you who have sent me e-mail to tell
me how useful and marvelous you have found HyperCard to be. I hope
that, with this news, you will resolve to give HyperCard 2.0 and
Claris a chance. Claris wants HyperCard 2.0 to succeed. You want
HyperCard 2.0. Sounds to me like things can be worked out.
Now, if you will please inundate me with questions about features,
rather than questions about distribution, I would be a happier man.
But hold off a little while, because I'm going out of town...
Kevin Calhoun
(Not Bill, but fit for the purpose)
------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: I am not speaking for Apple or for Claris.
I don't even have my own icon.
------------------------------------------------------------------dgraham@kean.ucs.mun.ca (David Graham) (09/27/90)
In article <45212@apple.Apple.COM>, jkc@apple.com (John Kevin Calhoun) writes: [Intro to summary of discussion deleted] > Mike said that the version of the HyperCard 2.0 application that will > be bundled with Macintosh CPUs will be the full application, identical > to the one Claris will sell as part of their standalone product. > However, this version will come with just a few stacks and minimal > documentation. > > Current users of HyperCard 1.x will be able to upgrade to 2.0 for > the previously announced price of $49. They will receive a package > that contains 4 disks and 2 manuals. Claris is not yet taking orders > for the upgrade package. > > The pricing and configuration of the full standalone product has yet > to be determined. > Ack! now there are *3* configurations?! (bundled, upgrade and standalone) This is sounding worse all the time. You mean we may have to shell out some kind of Big Bucks to Claris to get the development version, even if we already have HC 1.2? Ack... And no orders are being taken yet for the upgrade configuration? And the configuration of the standalone version hasn't been determined? Just when are we likely to see these, anyway? > > Now, if you will please inundate me with questions about features, > rather than questions about distribution, I would be a happier man. > But hold off a little while, because I'm going out of town... I wish I could think of some, but right now, I'm afraid, the only questions that really matter to me are: 1. What's in the development configuration as opposed to the upgrade configuration (i.e., do I need one rather than the other?)? 2. When can I get it? 3. How much is it going to cost me? Unfortunately, those seem to be the questions no one can answer. :-( Anyone at Claris reading this thread? > > Kevin Calhoun *************************************************************************** David Graham dgraham@kean.ucs.mun.ca ***************************************************************************
ba0k+@andrew.cmu.edu (Brian Patrick Arnold) (09/28/90)
In Kevin Calhoun's wonderful clarification from Mike Holm: >...it appears that the ability of the bundled version of HyperCard >2.0 to alter stacks, including the editing of scripts, will >...be available. [Disclaimer, disclaimer, etc., etc.] Back on Monday I said in "HC already a sell-out.": >If all Claris is going to do for the bundled version is >...skew [the home stack] and other bundled stacks toward the >novice, then I don't have much trouble with that. If and when we ever SEE the dang product... There's a lot of hysteria on the net and I'm rather suprised that so few people posting long tirades were able to grasp this possibility of interpretation from the press release. I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but it seems to me that getting all worked up about something that exists only in a press release will utimately only add stress to our lives and prevent us from enjoying the farfeg, uh, the fahrfeg, fargnefugen, um... the way coolness of HyperCard 2.0. - Brian
gwowen@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (George Owen) (09/29/90)
In article <wb0azXu00UhW038c1K@andrew.cmu.edu> ba0k+@andrew.cmu.edu (Brian Patrick Arnold) writes: >There's a lot of hysteria on the net and I'm rather suprised that so few >people posting long tirades were able to grasp this possibility of >... >their own opinion, but it seems to me that getting all worked up about > etc , etc , etc ... >- Brian ... I agree dude ! For crying out loud people RELAX ! GADS , we're talking about a silly piece of software , not someone's CANCER test results !!!! Sheech !!!! :-) - G -
potel@Apple.COM (Mike Potel) (09/29/90)
Since Kevin Calhoun, engineering lead on HC 2.0, is off on a well-deserved vacation, I'll answer these questions about what he reported was said by Mike Holm, HyperCard product manager, on CompuServe Wednesday night. In article <139626@kean.ucs.mun.ca> dgraham@kean.ucs.mun.ca (David Graham) writes: >In article <45212@apple.Apple.COM>, jkc@apple.com (John Kevin Calhoun) writes: > >Ack! now there are *3* configurations?! (bundled, upgrade and standalone) > >This is sounding worse all the time. You mean we may have to shell out >some kind of Big Bucks to Claris to get the development version, even >if we already have HC 1.2? Ack... > >And no orders are being taken yet for the upgrade configuration? And >the configuration of the standalone version hasn't been determined? >Just when are we likely to see these, anyway? > >...the only questions that really matter to me are: > >1. What's in the development configuration as opposed to the >upgrade configuration (i.e., do I need one rather than the other?)? >2. When can I get it? >3. How much is it going to cost me? > >Unfortunately, those seem to be the questions no one can answer. :-( Relax, let me restate what Kevin said: There is only one binary for HC 2.0. It will be the full binary capable of doing everything including scripting. There are several different packagings and ways to get it. BUNDLED with all Mac CPUs starting as soon as we can roll it in will be the full binary, a few stacks, and minimal documentation. You can do full development with this binary, provided you already know how, can figure it out by playing around, buy one of the many HC 2.0 books, or buy the following: If you own HC 1.x, you will be able to UPGRADE to HC 2.0 for $49. You will get the full binary, full stacks, full manuals. The upgrade will be available from Claris as soon as they are ready, the press release seemed to indicate this will be in November, they aren't taking orders yet. If you never owned HC 1.x (= bought your Mac < 1987 and never bought HC 1.x), you can buy the FULL STANDALONE PRODUCT, which is the same thing as above, full binary, full stacks, full manuals, from Claris for some price not yet determined I assume also in November. As Kevin said, this is not an official announcment by Apple or Claris, I deny I said anything. Claris will be giving us all the official scoop shortly, just as soon as they hose down the person who wrote that original press release... By the way, I'm Kevin's boss's boss and I completely support him, Ronny, Binky, Steve, Martin, all the rest of our great HC team, and all the tremendous work they've done. And that most definitely includes all the tireless energy they've put into working the nets and interacting with all of you great developers and users out there. You all made a big difference in helping us produce the very best HC 2.0. Mike Potel Director, SW Eng
udi@cs.arizona.edu (Udi Manber) (09/30/90)
In article <45267@apple.Apple.COM>, potel@Apple.COM (Mike Potel) writes: > > Relax, let me restate what Kevin said: > > ..... > > As Kevin said, this is not an official announcment by Apple or Claris, I deny > I said anything. Claris will be giving us all the official scoop shortly, > just as soon as they hose down the person who wrote that original press > release... > > ..... I am not sure you realize how bad this makes apple management look. This fiasco has been going on for more than a week now (at least). I mean, can you imagine an official, say, GM press release saying that new chevys will come without tires, and only professional drivers will be able to get nice tires. Then there's a big rage, and an official at Chevy is quoted as saying "little old ladies don't need tires; they drive so slow anyway; we want to protect them." And then a whole week goes by and no one says anything! (This is not a precise analogy, but you get my point.) Someone with authority at apple should have realized quickly how serious this is and should have done something about it. I fully sympathize with the hypercard team. They deserve better. -- Udi Manber -- Dept. of Computer Science, University of Arizona -- udi@cs.arizona.edu
ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger) (10/03/90)
In article <103@aloe.cs.arizona.edu> udi@cs.arizona.edu (Udi Manber) writes: >In article <45267@apple.Apple.COM>, potel@Apple.COM (Mike Potel) writes: >> >> As Kevin said, this is not an official announcment by Apple or Claris, I deny >> I said anything. Claris will be giving us all the official scoop shortly, >> just as soon as they hose down the person who wrote that original press >> release... > >I am not sure you realize how bad this makes apple management look. >This fiasco has been going on for more than a week now (at least). >Someone with authority at apple should have realized >quickly how serious this is and should have done something about it. >I fully sympathize with the hypercard team. They deserve better. >-- Udi Manber Personally I think its a big to do about nothing. Everyone that wants Hypercard 2.0 will get it. You get a hacked home stack with a new Mac and limited docs, big deal... you still have the real thing to do with as you wish. ` The biggest problems appear to be from those that appear to be either illiterate, or just want something to whine about. Everything from the beginning as I read the PR was perfectly clear.. I knew what Apple was doing. But everyone tries to read between the lines and look what happens... Its all Apple's fault... They`re ruining Hypercard, they've destroyed the "dream" (and if you thought there was some sort of Hyper dream related to all this, yeesh) Come on wake up and smell the coffee people... Apple & Claris are merely marketing the product differently than before and more than likely to the users advantage. Many copies of Hypercard bought with Macs never make it out of the shrink wrap, why give users everything they need at more expense when in probably 7-8 out of 10 macs, it hardly gets used... For those that do use it, its a valuable tool.... For others its just a box with disks they may look at once and that will be it. What the actual percentage of users actually break into Hypercard, the above is my "guess". But 25-30% might still be high... But the perpetual Apple bashing is getting really old. -- Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 3Com Corp. Co-SysOp FreeSoft RT - GEnie. Enterprise Systems Division (I disclaim anything and everything) UUCP: {3comvax,auspex,sun}!bridge2!ngg Internet: ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM
cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu (Andrew M. Cohill) (10/03/90)
I've tried to restrain myself from all the silliness in this newgroup recently, but someone finally said something sensible. The point was made that many copies of Hypercard never make it out of the shrink wrap, and I believe that to be true. In fact, Hypercard has never lived up the original hype. I run into people all the time that ask what it is supposed to be used for; typically these are people who buy the Mac for specific purposes but have no need to "invent" new things. As an example, the College of Architecture here pretty much requires students to buy Macs, and they have one of the largest single curriculum installed bases of Macs in the country (600 +). I can tell you, as a member of the College, that these people push their Macs hard graphically, but most of them have not even installed Hypercard, much less use it for anything. Giving away Hypercard with every machine costs big bucks when you are selling hundreds of thousands of machines. It makes perfect sense to me quit giving away stuff that ends up in most peoples' closet, and start trying to create a revenue stream so that you can, in the end, spend more on enhancing the product in a meaningful way for the people that do use it. For reasons I have never understood, Macs attract lots of users who have this wierd notion that Apple should give everything away, and that it is somehow a violation of First Amendment rights (or something) if they don't. You don't see pc users whining like this. Would make an interesting psychological profile study: Why whiny Mac users..... -- | ...we have to look for routes of power our teachers never | imagined, or were encouraged to avoid. T. Pynchon |Andy Cohill |703/231-7855 cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu VPI&SU