a544@mindlink.UUCP (Rick McCormack) (09/29/90)
Whoa. Claris didn't sneak HyperCard 2.0 out of Apple headquarters in the dead of night. Apple asked Claris to handle the distribution. I put my money on Apple as the ones who have lost the vision of a program so neat that thousands of talented people would write and distribute freely some of the best programming available today - Xcmds and Xfcns! I classify the confusion surrounding HC 2.0's release under the old heading "POISONING THE WELL," since, no matter what the outcome of this sorry affair, many people will never hear the end of the story. They will be left with the impression that Apple has "taken away" something from us. Too bad -- sorry Apple, you failed your marketing 101!
andy@gistdev.gist.com (Andy Warinner) (09/29/90)
As I have been following the great HC 2.0/Claris debate, I have been swinging between rage and sullen mollification, ending up in cynicism skepticism. It seems that Claris is talking out both sides of their mouth. First, some Claris marketing exec says: > The bundled version. however, won't give users access to the >scripting features in HyperCard's user Level 5, which means users >won't be able to reprogram stacks, according to a Claris spokeswoman. > The audience for the authoring version will be commercial and >corporate in-house programmers and multimedia developers, according to >John Zeisler, Claris marketing vice president. This provokes understandable rage. Then someone else from Claris says: >Here is the latest word (paraphrased) from Mike Holm, Claris HyperCard >Product Manager, as expressed in an online conversation Wednesday evening >26-Sep on CompuServe: > >Beginning Real Soon Now, every new Macintosh CPU will contain one >HyperCard disk, including the *FULL* HyperCard 2.0 application, a very >simple Home stack with the buttons for Authoring, Painting and Scripting >disabled, and Address stack, an Appointments stack, maybe another stack or >two, and a 30-page (or so) welcome to HyperCard book/brochure. The reason >given by the people who made the decision for the disabling of the >userlevels above #2 is that they wanted to keep naive users from >accidentally destroying their stacks. An experienced HyperCard user will >notice that there is just an opaque button hiding the other userlevel >selections. This pronouncement comforts me somewhat. But my final conclusion is that CLARIS JUST DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE HYPERCARD PHILOSOPHY. A lot of people embraced the HyperCard philosophy of open software and empowering users. Yet Claris has trampled on that philosophy by reintroducing the distinction between users (who have to be prevented "from accidentally destroying their stacks", shades of "1984" anyone?) and developers ("The audience for the authoring version will be commercial and corporate in-house programmers and multimedia developers"). HyperCard was supposed to eliminate this division. And HyperCard was supposedly so central to the Apple philosophy that it was designated system software, unlike the original MacPaint/MacWrite. Whatever the real distinctions there are between the bundled version and the authoring version of HyperCard, Apple and Claris have gone a long way towards destroying and confusing the philosophy of HyperCard that Apple has worked so hard to promote. The result will be a lot less people willing to take the big leap of putting HyperCard to work for them. Andrew Warinner | "Semper ubi sub ubi" - J. Caesar GIST, Inc. | Standard | EMAIL: andy@gistdev.gist.com disclaimer... | {uunet, uiucuxc}!gistdev!andy
kf@mbunix.mitre.org (Fong) (10/02/90)
Let's see if we can be positive about this Hypercard 2.0 thing. I think Apple does have a clear vision of what it is doing with Claris and as long as a scriptable version of Hypercard is bundled with every Mac, I disagree that letting Claris have Hypercard is a bad idea. I do agree though that the way this process has been handled has been horrendous (from a PR point of view). But let's look at the history: 1. The press release said "a complete Hypercard 2.0 authoring system" will be sold by Claris. The key word might be "complete" rather than "authoring". Would you say that Hypercard 1.2.5 has a "complete" authoring system? Who hasn't bought some book or software (stacks, xcmds) in order to do serious authoring or scripting? I'll agree that Hypercard 1.2.5 clearly has a basic and capable authoring system, but not complete. It even lacks a basic reference for the Hypertalk language. (And remember that the original bundled Hypercard had no intro to scripting manual, just the users guide.) 2. Apple has always been a systems vendor, in other words, a box supplier. Its lack of customer support, except through dealers, who mainly "support" hardware, is an indication of this fact. End-user software has always been an unsupported afterthought. Apple produces end-user software to implement some neat idea, but then has taken forever or never (no offense to any Apple employees) to improve upon the original concept. Examples, you say, well here are some examples: MacWrite: minor feature improvements over four years MacPaint: can we say almost never? MacDraw: can we say bug-fix? MacTerminal: what version is this at now? is it still "supported"? Finder: does your finder (not system) do much more than version 1.0? haven't we been complaining about lack of user-interface features and improvements? MacProject, AppleShare, Apple File Exchange, Font/DA Mover, etc. Although MPW and MacApp donUt suffer from the no upgrade syndrome (probably because they are used internally at Apple), they do suffer from no marketing or support (for non-Partners/Associates). When HC 2.0 arrives, hopefully, it will be the exception to this pattern. Claris has the resources for software improvements (see next point), Apple doesn't (except for underlying system software). When Apple made Claris a wholly-owned subsidiary, Apple recognized the present economic situation and moved towards making itself a software vendor as well (thereby upsetting and putting fear third-party software vendors; although upsetting third parties is not a good thing). Most analysts agree (and the stock market and income statements reflect this) that hardware vendors are in for lean times, but that software vendors will do fine over the next year. 3. Claris has been a software vendor and has provided software support for all Claris products, i.e, a newsletter informing you of upgrades with tips, and telephone support. Has Apple ever provided you with customer (not developer) support for software, especially for Hypercard? Has Apple ever informed you about any software upgrade (there weren't any upgrades, right?) ? Other than hardware "support" through dealers, Apple provides support only to developers who pay and qualify. I believe Claris can and will develop more Hypercard-based products, extending the reach of Hypercard (see point 5). As long as it is bundled and assuming that key HC team members move over to Claris, I will be glad that the Claris subsidiary is working on Hypercard. And I will expect greater improvements in a shorter time... 4. Apple has its hands full developing basic system software (like the "first-half 1991" System 7.0). With much more work to do with all those neat things that didn't make it into System 7.0 (the wish list: protected memory multitasking, AppleEvents and AppleScript, more QuickDraw/TrueType/PostScript development stuff with Adobe, QuickTime (video/animation standards), new print architecture, Apple help system, document compression, ISDN), and seemingly greater commitment to A/UX (Apple joined UNIX International and OSF), it's believable that Apple's software resources will be committed only to basic system software development (with no end-user support, as usual). 5. Claris is considering creating an Extended System Software (ESS) group that will handle Hypercard 2.0, AppleShare (rumored-to-be-transferred), and AppleMail (basic mail system known-to-be-in-development but never announced). All of this software is (or will be) provided directly to end users/network administrators. I believe the aim of this group would be to apply the software technology to new markets. For example, Claris could develop executive information systems, computer-based training systems, and groupware software using a combination of HC/AppleShare/AppleMail. Claris is better at marketing and supporting application products than Apple. So this is what I hope the real Hypercard situation is: Hypercard 2.0 will be bundled with the Macs in the same way that it is now (possibly minus the Intro to Scripting guide that wasn't originally included anyway). As in the past, it will come with additional stacks providing various productivity tools, a Help stack, and a Hypercard User's Manual. It will come out of the box set for the paint level. Authoring and scripting levels will be available. Customer support will be as it is now, namely, none. Hypercard 2.0, Developer's version will be sold separately by Claris. It will include everything in the bundled version (in other words, the exact same Hypercard 2.0 application). In addition, it will include a scripting manual (stack), hypertalk reference manual (stack), xcmd/xfcn manual. It will include an additional debugger, serial port and communications control tools, interfaces to Think and MPW, and additional examples and tools such as those found in third-party development stacks or on Apple's CD-ROM developer disks. It will also include a one-year subscription to Hypercard Technical Notes and some level of developer support from a Claris Hypercard developer support team. From the Apple press releases about Hypercard 2.0 and Claris, there is nothing that says the above isn't true. So I will keep my fingers crossed. (And when all of this turns out to be wrong, you can yell at me later and say I told you so :(. ) But come on, let's try to be a little more positive even though Apple messed up by making this more mysterious and confusing than it should've been... OKAY, OKAY...APPLE EXECUTIVES, MAKE SURE YOU INCLUDE THAT SCRIPT EDITOR XCMD WITH THE BUNDLED VERSION OF HYPERCARD!!! Kevin Fong A Hypercard user and Apple observer MITRE Corporation Standard disclaimer
maller@applelink@apple.com (Steve Maller) (10/09/90)
In article <121797@linus.mitre.org> kf@mbunix.mitre.org (Fong) writes: > Let's see if we can be positive about this Hypercard 2.0 thing... Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I have taken the liberty of forwarding your comments on to some of our managers. Steve Maller HyperCard Engineering Team Apple Computer ------------- I speak solely for myself in these matters