cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu (Andrew M. Cohill) (01/16/91)
Kevin Patfield was complaining about the cost of the $49 Claris upgrade; I too thought it was a bit high until I actually purchased it. You get five disks, which any reasonable person would agree (maybe I'm optimistic about the definition of reasonable on the net) would be worth about $25 if that's all you got (remember that Hypercard is on them, with lots of really good stacks--no flames about how you can buy bulk disks for 49 cents, so Claris should only charge $2.45 for HyperCard). You also get a 578 page HyperTalk manual that is easily worth $25 by itself; they did a nice job with it, and is much better than the Apple HyperTalk book, which was much smaller. Anyway, $25 (for disks) and $25 (for the book) is $49, or thereabouts, and a darn good deal. I still can't figure out why no one expects free software from IBM, but Apple is supposed to be a charity organization. -- | ...we have to look for routes of power our teachers never | imagined, or were encouraged to avoid. T. Pynchon | |Andy Cohill cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu VPI&SU
bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre) (01/18/91)
Andrew Cohill: |Kevin Patfield was complaining about the cost of the $49 Claris upgrade; |I too thought it was a bit high until I actually purchased it. ... | |Anyway, $25 (for disks) and $25 (for the book) is $49, or thereabouts, |and a darn good deal. I still can't figure out why no one expects free |software from IBM, but Apple is supposed to be a charity organization. Excuse me for a moment, and please recall that my opinions are not the same as Apple's. Although I regret the fact that Apple is changing Hypercard into a regular, paid-for, product, I think that $49 for the upgrade is incredibly charitable, especially since it includes telephone tech support. As a former tech support rep, let me assure you that not only is it extremely expensive to provide good support, Claris has provided -- in my and many other more prominent people's opinions -- the best support around. People have been griping about Apple overcharging ever since Jerry Pournelle complained about the fact that Inside Mac (in its three-ring binder version, including free updates) cost $100. This was in 1984. Complain all you want about the price of commercial software. $495 for a word processor or spreadsheet is quite a chunk a change, but your $49 doesn't even begin to cover the actual expenses of development, packaging and documentation, and support for Hypercard. And as far as what Hypercard is actually WORTH? Well, as an example, I know plenty of contract Hypercard programmers who bill over $100/hr, and their clients are thrilled to pay them. I am proud to have paid my own money for the upgrade, even though I have access to the same materials at work. I like getting support for my software, and I'm glad to pay for it. Mind you, I still think that converting Hypercard into a paid-for product is a terrible move, and that it will eventually undermine its user base. Hypercard was supposed to get everyone who had a Mac into programming. I know many "Hypercard Hippies" who would NEVER have written a program before HC. They are actually "changing the world" by creating special-purpose programs for niche markets, small businesses, and special user groups. But things being the way they are, I think getting a radically improved Hypercard, with manuals and support, for $49 is a true bargain. bill coderre proud to support hypercard on the net for FREE
hirchert@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Kurt Hirchert) (01/18/91)
I'll agree that $49 is not a particularly high cost for what Claris includes in the package. On the other hand, who said I want all that stuff that Claris puts in the package. There are vendors that will give me that actual update to a piece of softare at little or no cost and let _me_ decide whether I want to spend extra money for new manuals or support. Where $49 looks expecially high is as the cost to upgrade from version 2.0 to 2.0v2. Even the much maligned Microsoft will send you their minor bug fix releases for free once you have a legitimate copy of the major release. [The real problem with all of this is that it undermines the assumption of universality that has long been a part of HC programming. Until now, one could assume that if a potential user of your stack had HC at all, s/he either had the version you were using or could get it for free. There is now a serious tradeoff in deciding whether to use the enhanced functionality of HC 2.0, because not everyone who has HC will be willing to spend $49 to get version 2.0.] -- Kurt W. Hirchert hirchert@ncsa.uiuc.edu National Center for Supercomputing Applications