ffdkl@acad3.alaska.edu (LaSota Daniel K) (04/03/91)
As described in MacWeek this version deals with IAP (Inter Application
Communication).
I guess that we could get it from Claris but could we get just the application
from Apple dealers? Or other sources?
Could someone knowledgable respond?
Dieing to take over the world with my home stack.
}:)
Ant Man!
Dan LaSota
ffdkl@acad3.alaska.edugaynor@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Jim Gaynor) (04/03/91)
In article <1991Apr3.004628.7204@ims.alaska.edu> ffdkl@acad3.alaska.edu writes: >As described in MacWeek this version deals with IAP (Inter Application >Communication). >I guess that we could get it from Claris but could we get just the application >from Apple dealers? Or other sources? >Could someone knowledgable respond? Well, the same article says that it will be available to registered owners of HyperCard 2.0. My question is, how are you registered? Sure, if you bought the $49 upgrade, or the Dev Kit, you got a nice registration card to send in to Claris. But what about those folks that just got the 2.0 binary and "starter" stacks (Address, Datebook, crippled Home) with their Macintosh? How can they be registered? I've got a nasty feeling that the "registered" users are just going to be the people who bought it. <sigh> I'll throw this out, as my idea of a "reasonable" distribution policy, and we'll see what folks think: 1) For those who received HyperCard with their Mac, regardless of version, they could pick up a "starter upgrade" from their local user group/dealer/whathaveyou. This "starter upgrade" would be the same thing that is shipped with the new Macs - HyperCard 2.x binary, and the "starter" stacks. That way, everyone could at least use 2.x, and run stacks made with it. Proof of registration? Your original HyperCard disks that shipped with your Mac. 2) For those who bought the upgrade or the Dev Kit for 2.0 and registered themselves, a "full upgrade" would be available. This would be the full 5 disk distribution: HyperCard 2.x binaries, support stacks, and a stack describing new features and such. This upgrade would be available through Claris or (maybe) your local dealer. Printed upgrade documentation available at a hopefully reasonable cost. Proof of registration? Original disks, and/or the Claris user ID you get when you register. What does this get us? 2) is probably what Claris plans to do with 2.1 and future releases. (I claim no special knowledge, these are just educated guesses). But 1), which probably isn't planned, will do plenty of things: a) Speed up the general acceptance of HC 2.x as the new standard by increasing the number of people who can run 2.x stacks. b) Help Claris sales of HC 2.x full packages by giving a fully-functional taste of HC 2.x to users who aren't willing to buy a full package without a taste. c) Increase general goodwill towards Claris. Hey, let's face it, since this fiasco with HC, and the problems with FileMaker Pro, Claris' previously shiny image has become a tad tarnished. Tokens of goodwill are important. Remember Public Folder? Basically, anyone who owns a Mac ought to have the ability to run a Hypercard 2.x stack. HyperCard was initially established at "System Software", and even though it's not quite in that category anymore, it's a product that has become too much a part of the Mac to relegate completely to the commercial realm. The "starter upgrade" plan would allow people to continue to use Hypercard with most of the functionality they have in the past, while still allowing the elevation of "full Hypercard" to the commercial world. The only difference is the stacks that are bundled. The binary, the engine for HyperCard, is still the standard that all Mac users have access to. But hey, I'm babbling idealistic nonsense. <sigh> >Dieing to take over the world with my home stack. Bwha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha... <evil grin> -- Jim Gaynor - Systems Analyst 1 + "This is Serious. He is Lost. The Ohio State University ACS-FMS-OCES | We must begin the Search at once." gaynor@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu | -Rabbit, from gaynor@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu + "The House at Pooh Corner"
leue@galen.crd.ge.com (Bill Leue) (04/04/91)
Perhaps someone would be so kind as to post a features list for HC 2.1 for those of us who don't read MacWeek. Thanks! -Bill Leue leue@crd.ge.com
robg@Apple.COM (Rob Griffiths) (05/17/91)
OK, usually, I just stand by and let comments (both pro and con Apple and any other companies) go by...Perhpas I should do that in this case, but this article touched a nerve. UP FRONT NOTE: These are MY opinions, not Apple's, nor those of any other company I mention. Most of my examples will quote IBM and Apple, but only because those are the two firms for which I've worked. Before I start, I should also mention that I'm a Finance major (BS and MBA); I hack only for the fun of it :-). At both IBM and Apple, I did work/do work in the Finance/Treasury organizations. I have a good understaning of corporate finance, and the hows/whys of corporate existence... In article <32946@usc> kurtzman@pollux.usc.edu (Stephen Kurtzman) writes: > >say that you should never trust Apple. They are corporate entity whose >sole purpose is to make money. Any thing you heard about them being ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >anything more than that was sales hype. I don't think this is true of Apple, and (more importantly) I don't think this is true of MOST corporations. If this were true, then I wouldn't be able to quote examples like these: * IBM donating MILLIONS of dollars to charity through employee and company matching donations. Similar programs exist at many other corporations. * Most US companies donate heavily to universities. At IBM, I would donate $250 to my old school, and IBM would DOUBLE or TRIPLE this amount, to make my net donation over $750. * IBM, Apple, and other companies donating money, people, and resources to help the Bay area recover from the October 1989 earthquake. * Apple donating large sums of money to the K-12 education markets throughout the USA, and asking nothing in return. * Corporate programs, such as IBM's sabbatical program, that offer employed professionals the opportunity to spend >one year< (on full salary) teaching at high schools and colleges (primarily schools that have budget problems). IBM covers all of the employees expenses (relative to the teaching), so that the school district has the free use of an experienced professional. I could go on and on and on, but I hope you see my point. None of these things HAVE to be done. You can argue that they are all simply 'gimmicks' to increase sales in the long run. If this is true, it's an expensive way to do it. IBM (and Apple, or any other company) would get a much better return out of spending this money on advertising, price reductions, further R&D, etc. I support the theory that the companies have begun to realize that they not only need to be profitable, but that they must be 'good neighbors', as well. Any company that ignores its social responsibilities will not last long in today's environment. (And the following, just to make this somewhat relevant to comp.sys.mac. hypercard ;-) If Apple were only out to make scads of money, they (my opinions, remember!) would never have given away the original Hypercard. Bill Atkinson agreement or no, they would've found a way to charge for the product. Also, while were on the subjects of giveaways, drop by your local IBM (or Compaq or AST or ...) dealer and ask for a free copy of the latest version of DOS or Windows. Go ahead, bring your own disks, and tell him that you just need the latest version of the software...I think you'd be asked for about $70 for DOS 4.01. And what do you get? A basic operating system! Oh yea, and a tutorial...Given that Apple spent three years developing System 7, I think their pricing actions seem extremely fair. You can still get the software for FREE, from many sources! Try telling this to your IBM dealer... Dealer: Let me get this straight ... your telling me they POSTED their system software to a BBS? Why? Once again, if it was Apple's intention to simply make a ton of money on System 7, the purchase price would be significant, and there'd be no free distribution channels at all! A recent glance through the paper showed Windows 3.0 selling for $109. For a SHELL that sits on top of the operating system. At the worst, System 7 will set you back $99, for the WHOLE (8 disks worth!) operating system, with a set a nice manuals. Just to close this off, let me add that I do believe that corporations are in business to make money. Apple could certainly do more to give away more of its income. System 7, Hypercard, and the other associated products could be distributed free, with manuals, to all current Mac owners. BUT the problem with this is, we need income to fund the R&D that keeps these neat products coming! Companies have tried the 'give it away' strategy before. It appears to work in the short term, but long term results are almost always predictable - bankruptcy. If you don't charge enough to cover your costs and fund future development, you aren't going to last very long. (And, don't forget, Apple (along with 95% of the Fortune 1000) is a public company. We not only have to keep customers happy, but we have to keep the investors happy, too. This may be a problem with American business, but it's almost intrinsic to doing big business here!) > >(Note, there are decent, hard-working, well-meaning people working at >Apple. But, their good intentions mean nothing unless they are in >positions of power. If they feel offended by my remarks, then they >have a lot of growing up to do.) I'm certainly not offended by your remarks. But in my experience, the people I've met at Apple are much more than "decent, hard-working, [and] well-meaning." I think there's a different description to cover the people that labored for years on System 7, Hypercard, Apple Share, and any other number of highly innovative products. These people work 20 hours days; many have cots in their offices; and a very good number of them don't see family and friends for weeks at a time as introductions approach...Many also do things in their spare time, such as supporting the FTP site on apple.com. Nothing in their job description says they have to do this. Kevin Calhoun and the rest of the Hypercard team aren't required to read comp.sys.mac.hypercard, and answer user's questions, comments, and concerns (Right, Kevin??). But they do... To me, this is dedication to an ideal; not just "hard working well-meaning" people. And as long as bright people like these remain devoted to their goals, Apple will continue to introduce products that amaze and delight...As an independent (I'm not in the product groups!) observer, I would like to thank them all for their efforts on the company's, and on the public's, behalf! Well, I feel better! :-) But seriously, I hope you'll reconsider your statement that the sole goal of any corporation is profits... Oh yea, for the record...I hope we find a way to continue the current distribution of HyperCard. It was this package that really got me interested in the Macintosh all those years ago... rob griffiths -- The above named individual (hereinafter the "signee") doth swear that the opinions and topics (hereinafter the "lousy logic") presented are in no way representative of the opinions of the company (hereinafter "The Company"). The Company, in fact, may use the lousy logic as a precursory argument in insanity hearings begun for the signee's benefit. -- /---------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | R. Griffiths | "Those who make peaceful resolution impossible | | Apple Computer, Inc. | will make violent revolution inevitable" JFK | |----------------------| | | PP-ASEL(Glider soon) | "Of course you realize this means war!" Bugs Bunny | \---------------------------------------------------------------------------/
eoliver@hcunix.haverford.edu (Erik Oliver) (05/18/91)
As an owner of Hypercard 1.2.5, I must say that I am extremely frustrated with the fact that Hypercard and the System Software is now a paying item. I have completely stopped using Hypercard in response to the charge they are assesing for the new versions. The reason people used hypercard was that (1) you knew everyone had it so you could write help stacks or small stacks that did nifty things (2) it was easy to get if you didn't have it. Now, not everyone has it or is going to bother getting it. I certainly have no intention of doing so. Also, having used all the mac operatining systems back as far as 1.0, I can tell you that most of them especially since around 3.2 have been extremely BUGGY. I have no intention of putting 7.0 on my macintosh until version 7.0.5 or so comes out. I will not pay money to be a beta tester. System 7.0 has too many new bells and whistles and most likely has just as many bugs. $99 to be a beta tester is a lot of money. Erik Opininated Shareholder with not enough clout to do squat.
george@swbatl.sbc.com (George Nincehelser 5-6544) (05/18/91)
In article <eoliver.674499783@hcunix.haverford.edu> eoliver@hcunix.haverford.edu (Erik Oliver) writes: > >As an owner of Hypercard 1.2.5, I must say that I am extremely >frustrated with the fact that Hypercard and the System Software is now a >paying item. I have completely stopped using Hypercard in response to >the charge they are assesing for the new versions. The reason people >used hypercard was that (1) you knew everyone had it so you could write >help stacks or small stacks that did nifty things (2) it was easy to get >if you didn't have it. Now, not everyone has it or is going to bother >getting it. I certainly have no intention of doing so. You're frustrated for no reason. You can get new systems and HyperCard at no or very low cost. >Also, having used all the mac operatining systems back as far as 1.0, >I can tell you that most of them especially since around 3.2 have been >extremely BUGGY. I have no intention of putting 7.0 on my macintosh >until version 7.0.5 or so comes out. I will not pay money to be a beta >tester. System 7.0 has too many new bells and whistles and most likely >has just as many bugs. $99 to be a beta tester is a lot of money. Sorry, but I can't support your claims...I've been bitten by few system bugs, I didn't have to pay for 7.0 to try it out, and I haven't noticed any major bugs since I began using 7 several months ago. Sounds like you're a bit disgruntled for some reason. Why? P.S. Thanks, Apple, for the new system. Some of us really appreciate it. > >Erik >Opininated Shareholder with not enough clout to do squat. -- / George David Nincehelser \ george@swbatl.sbc.com \ / / Southwestern Bell Telephone \ Phone: (314) 235-6544 \ / / / Advanced Technology Laboratory \ Fax: (314) 235-5797 \ / / / /\ 1010 Pine, St. Louis, MO 63101 \ de asini umbra disceptare \
jkc@Apple.COM (John Kevin Calhoun) (05/21/91)
In article <53000@apple.Apple.COM> robg@Apple.COM (Rob Griffiths) writes: >If Apple were only out to make scads of money, they (my opinions, >remember!) would never have given away the original Hypercard. Bill >Atkinson agreement or no, they would've found a way to charge for the >product. I think that Apple "gave away" the original HyperCard because enough people here thought that it would help to differentiate Macintoshes from other PCs and to sell more Macintoshes. I think that Apple stopped giving HyperCard away because enough of those same people decided that it didn't do that well enough to justify the cost. >Oh yea, for the record...I hope we find a way to continue the current >distribution of HyperCard. It was this package that really got me >interested in the Macintosh all those years ago... I think that a general authoring tool should be readily and cheaply available. However, I don't think that there will be much of a demand for it until far more content is readily and cheaply available. When there's a lively interchange of digital news, instruction, entertainment, and gossip, after we've solved the various problems that keep us from passing these things around, then far more people will want an authoring tool that helps them to create, store, and arrange such things. And when that day comes, we'll need something better than HyperCard. > Kevin Calhoun and the rest >of the Hypercard team aren't required to read comp.sys.mac.hypercard, >and answer user's questions, comments, and concerns (Right, Kevin??). >But they do... No, I'm not required to read this newsgroup. But I get a lot of good bug reports here. And I don't get enough opportunities to hear directly from people who use HyperCard what they think of it. So I do it, even when it's painful. Thanks for your comments, Rob. Kevin Calhoun jkc@apple.com ----- No unusual disclaimers need apply. (Although the usual ones do.)
jerome@ee.fit.edu (Jerome Chan Yeow Heong - 57875) (05/23/91)
I have Hypercard 2.0 when I bought my Mac IIsi sometime ago. Am I eligible for the hypercard 2.1 upgrade kit that is suppose to be selling for $49?! When and Where can I order my copy of HC2.1 from?! From whom?! .Chaos
bcarter@claven.idbsu.edu (Bruce Carter) (05/24/91)
In article <2525@winnie.fit.edu> jerome@ee.fit.edu (Jerome Chan Yeow Heong - 57875) writes: >I have Hypercard 2.0 when I bought my Mac IIsi sometime ago. >Am I eligible for the hypercard 2.1 upgrade kit that is >suppose to be selling for $49?! Yes. >When and Where can I order my copy of HC2.1 from?! >From whom?! Now (although I'm not sure they're shipping yet). Claris Corporation - (800) 544-8554 Bruce Carter Internet: bcarter@claven.idbsu.edu Courseware Development Coordinator duscarte@idbsu.idbsu.edu Boise State University Bitnet/CREN: duscarte@idbsu
glenn@gla-aux.uucp (Glenn Austin) (05/24/91)
In article <eoliver.674499783@hcunix.haverford.edu>, eoliver@hcunix.haverford.edu (Erik Oliver) writes: > > As an owner of Hypercard 1.2.5, I must say that I am extremely > frustrated with the fact that Hypercard and the System Software is now a > paying item. I have completely stopped using Hypercard in response to > the charge they are assesing for the new versions. The reason people > used hypercard was that (1) you knew everyone had it so you could write > help stacks or small stacks that did nifty things (2) it was easy to get > if you didn't have it. Now, not everyone has it or is going to bother > getting it. I certainly have no intention of doing so. Gee -- it was real difficult for me to get HyperCard 2.0. Let's see. Oh yes, I just got it from my local users group. > Also, having used all the mac operatining systems back as far as 1.0, > I can tell you that most of them especially since around 3.2 have been > extremely BUGGY. Really? Since 6.0.3, I haven't had any crashes at all attributable to the system or finder. I've been using 7.0 since it was in beta with few crashes, mostly due to using extremely old software. 7.0 is extremely solid, otherwise I wouldn't have installed it on my home machine, and certainly wouldn't have used it on my development machine at work. I'm even using programs listed as "Not compatible" with little or no problems. Lighten up and have fun. Install System 7 today and get some exciting work done! (or little work done -- I made the mistake of letting my boss install it on his machine. I haven't seen him so happy - nor have I seen him spend so much time "playing" with an OS :-) =============================================================================== | Glenn L. Austin | "Turn too soon, run out of room. | | Macintosh Wizard and | Turn too late, much better fate." | | Auto Racing Driver | -- Jim Russell Racing School Instructors | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Usenet: glenn@gla-aux.uucp | CI$: 76354,1434 | | GENie: G.AUSTIN3 | AOnline: GAustin | ===============================================================================
jerome@ketch (Jerome Chan Yeow Heong - 57875) (05/25/91)
In article <1991May23.215734.14619@guinness.idbsu.edu> bcarter@claven.idbsu.edu (Bruce Carter) writes: >>Am I eligible for the hypercard 2.1 upgrade kit that is >>suppose to be selling for $49?! > >Yes. > Another question: Is there an educational discount for this upgrade?! Thank you!
gaynor@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu (05/28/91)
In article <2534@winnie.fit.edu>, jerome@ketch (Jerome Chan Yeow Heong - 57875) writes: >In article <1991May23.215734.14619@guinness.idbsu.edu> bcarter@claven.idbsu.edu (Bruce Carter) writes: >>>Am I eligible for the hypercard 2.1 upgrade kit that is >>>suppose to be selling for $49?! >> >>Yes. > >Another question: Is there an educational discount for this upgrade?! No. The word from the OSU Computer Store is that Claris' margins are non-existent at $49, so no educational discount. However, The Development Kit (listing for well over $100) sells at OSU's Computer Store for $79. --- Jim Gaynor - AgVAX System Manager - Academic Computing - Ohio State University VMS:<gaynor@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu> UNIX:<gaynor@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Disclaimer : All opinions expressed here are mine and only mine. So there! Witty Quote: "Think, think, think, think..." - Winnie-the-Pooh, Taoist Bear.
bjustin@network.ucsd.edu (BIll Justin) (06/08/91)
Just received word from a very reliable source that there are some significant changes in HyperCard 2.1 versus HyperCard 2.0v2. Specifically, I was told the Picture XCMD was done differently, and so behaves differently than described in Goodman and other manuals. Anyone out there in the know who would care to comment on this? Please let me know by e-mail if you can. Internet: bjustin@ucsd.edu AppleLink: bjustin@ucsd.edu@INTERNET# Bill Justin UC San diego
jkc@Apple.COM (John Kevin Calhoun) (06/09/91)
In article <5442@network.ucsd.edu> bjustin@network.ucsd.edu (BIll Justin) writes: >Just received word from a very reliable source that there are some >significant changes in HyperCard 2.1 versus HyperCard 2.0v2. >Specifically, I was told the Picture XCMD was done differently, and >so behaves differently than described in Goodman and other manuals. I've been hearing this rumor persistently over the last several days. I wonder if your source can supply more information -- whichever "significant change" in 2.1 is causing a problem, it's certainly not in the Picture XCMD. There were only two changes to Picture for 2.1. 1) a bug fix: after the mouseDownInPicture message is sent, the mouseUpInPicture message is sent only if the mouse is still over the picture. 2) a minor enhancement: Picture now accepts a sixth parameter, to tell it whether a window should float. This allows developers to create floating Picture windows with custom WDEFs. There was no change that altered the fundamental way that it works. Goodman's description of the Picture XCMD is still current. You should be aware that the description in Winkler and Kamins is inaccurate, both for 2.0 and 2.1. I'd like it if someone could send me a script that broke in 2.1 and whose "breakage" is attributed to Picture, so that we can get to the nub of the problem. Kevin Calhoun jkc@apple.com