sarobnet@uokmax.UUCP (Scott Alan Robnett) (12/15/87)
> We all are familiar with the concept of a Generation Gap, or >a Wealth Gap. But I think that a more ominous concept creeping up on society >is the idea of a Knowledge Gap of which one could say the Technology Gap >is but a subset. > who resist change. Precursors to ill-fated movements are fear and mistrust >and that is exactly what we have. I find myself thinking more and more that >there are two kinds of people emerging from the masses: those who understand >technology and those who don't. To put it more exactly: those who understand >computers and those who don't. These two groups are separating and one of >them is growing in numbers, unfortunately it is the one that is more dangerous > I have these "visions" of mobs of people tearing down all that is >technological and progressive. All because of fear. Maybe these visions >are unfounded, but it seems to me that our society, whether by choice or ac- >cident, is producing such pressures to conform, such pressures to please and >entertain the lowest common denominator, that we have in our hands a Knowledge >Gap among our society which is becoming, in my opinion, dangerous. >have to TRY to stop thinking of ourselves alone and think of the future. >Not the technological future, but the sociological future. Society's >pressures are so great that our children don't stand a chance. WE do. >========================================================================= >Carlos Carrion, MS 301-250D, Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena CA 91109 >.. cit-vax!elroy!jpl-devvax!jplpro!carlos >========================================================================= (sorry about the empty follow up....) Interesting.... sounds sorta like Frank Herbert's _Dune_ science fiction series. He writes of a Galactic Empire where computers were banned after a holy war (the 'Butlerian Jihad') to rid the Galaxy of these vile mechanisms that technological society had spawned. I guess their rational was computers must be destroyed simply because they imitated the human mind. (Sounded like the Ayatollah & Company in Space to me...) The result was a treaty that disallowed any computers to be made or used. Herbert indicates that the technocrats (the 'Ixians') just went underground ..oops! into hiding, (kinda hard to go underground in space :-) and made machines that were on the borderline between what was allowed and what wasn't. Sharp people became thinking machines ('mentats') to do the bookkeeping chores of the Galaxy. Gee, I dunno, what with kids growing up with computers in school and video games and VCR's and microwaves and etc. etc. ad infinitum; just who will be left in 40+ years (at least in this country) that will opose technology for technology's sake? Or do you feel that a violent overthrow of technology is imminent? _____________________________________________________________________________ |Disclaimer? No, I don't disclaim |'I will not fear. Fear | Scott Robnett | |anything I write. (But U of Ok has|is the little death that| EECS student | |nothing to do with it) |brings total obliter- | University of OK| | |ation' - Litany against Fear - _Dune_ | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
reggie@pdn.UUCP (George W. Leach) (12/15/87)
In article <968@uokmax.UUCP>, sarobnet@uokmax.UUCP (Scott Alan Robnett) writes: jplpro!carlos (Carlos Carrion) writes: > > We all are familiar with the concept of a Generation Gap, or > >a Wealth Gap. But I think that a more ominous concept creeping up on society > >is the idea of a Knowledge Gap of which one could say the Technology Gap > >is but a subset. > Gee, I dunno, what with kids growing up with computers in school and > video games and VCR's and microwaves and etc. etc. ad infinitum; just who > will be left in 40+ years (at least in this country) that will opose > technology for technology's sake? Or do you feel that a violent overthrow of > technology is imminent? Although Scott points out that even those who don't understand technology still derive benefits from it, there still is a danger here. Sure the hard working blue color people make use of technology in the form of consumer electronics. It makes life easier. Now he can use his remote control to change the TV or tell the VCR what to do. But how does his life benefit from technology? How many people read Kurt Vonegat's "Player Piano"? Society was split into two groups. Those who were managers and engineers who understood and controled technology (the haves) and those whose only other recourse was to enlist in some sort of corps of workers to perform those functions which still required manual labor. The gap between these two economic groups was quite wide, with no middle ground. Although, our children are exposed to technology at an early age in school, there are other factors that determine how their futures will be shaped. One of these factors is the childs parents and their emphasis that is placed upon education and learning. There are many people out there in this world, who do not think along these lines. Nor are they necessarily capable of helping their children along in their education, both from a lack of knowledge and a financial standing. Without support from the home environment, no school can be expected to shape our children's futures. The education must begin at home, and it is the rare parent who gets that involved in the first place. Furthermore, those types of parents tend to be better educated themselves. One rarely finds parents with low levels of education and low paying jobs, who can instill in their children the urge to learn. A child may rise above these conditions, but many do not and end up in the same low-level, low paying, manual labor jobs their parents did. Look at the coal miners in West Virginia and Penn. How about the inner city poor. Or perhaps those in rural areas. I just moved here to Florida from New York a few months ago. Although this area (Tampa Bay) is growing, there are a great number of local people who are not well educated, work in low paying jobs, and are not going to push their kids to do better. In fact, many people in technical positions here send their kids to private, not public school, to keep the influence of the local people out of the way of their kids' education. You also find the same in the large cities, eg. New York. Those with some money] get their kids into private schools or move to the suburbs where the schools are better. Those who live in the city and can not afford private school, must accept the low quality of the public schools. Now given this, in 40+ years do you really see that much of a change? We must find a way to not only improved educational opportunities for all, but to provide kids from a disadvantaged background with a greater level of desire for education. Throwing money at the problem is not the answer, it never is. There must be a way to help kids overcome the negative influences that come from a background that does not encourage education and bettering oneself. -- George W. Leach Paradyne Corporation {gatech,rutgers,attmail}!codas!pdn!reggie Mail stop LF-207 Phone: (813) 530-2376 P.O. Box 2826 Largo, FL 34649-2826
TCORAM@UDCVAX.BITNET (maroC ddoT) (12/17/87)
George W. Leach writes: > Although, our children are exposed to technology at an early age in >school, there are other factors that determine how their futures will be >shaped. One of these factors is the childs parents and their emphasis that >is placed upon education and learning. I agree. Education starts in the home. >Without support from the home >environment, no school can be expected to shape our children's futures. The >education must begin at home, and it is the rare parent who gets that involved >in the first place. Furthermore, those types of parents tend to be better >educated themselves. One rarely finds parents with low levels of education >and low paying jobs, who can instill in their children the urge to learn. No, I disagree here. I think that many GOOD parents want thier children to do much better than they. You don't have to have a college education to realize that a college education can lead to higher paying jobs. A parent with a low level of education may depend more on schools as the source of learning for the child simply because they lack formal education and the 'learning' motivation to provide education in the home. What they can motivate is the urge to 'get ahead' and do well. The way toward this is through education. In fact, I have found that some children from highly educated families tend to be discouraged from learning and higher education. Is this rebellion? Don't mistake bad parents (ones who don't encourage thier children to do well) for low income (poorly educated) parents who cannot educate thier children themselves nor afford private schools. A great deal of these kids don't get ahead (or care to learn) because of the overwhelming social/peer pressures caused by the enviroment. > In fact, many people in technical >positions here send their kids to private, not public school, to keep the >influence of the local people out of the way of their kids' education. Trust me. It doesn't always work. I went to a private school (Catholic school) and I still found that I was influenced by the locals. It was like two different worlds. I went home everyday from school to a place where I was looked down upon because I went to a private school. This did not help encourage me to pursue learning. School is only 6 hours out of a day... >We must find a way to not only improved educational opportunities for all, >but to provide kids from a disadvantaged background with a greater level of >desire for education. Throwing money at the problem is not the answer, it >never is. There must be a way to help kids overcome the negative influences >that come from a background that does not encourage education and bettering >oneself. Yes. And until we find a way, current technology will always be science-fiction instead of science to most people. _____________________________________________________________ | maroC ddoT | Todd Coram | | tcoram@udcvax.bitnet | tentib.xavcdu@maroct | | remmargorP | Programmer | | retneC retupmoC cimedacA CDU | UDC Academic Computer Center | |_____________________________________________________________| "Trust me, I know what I'm doing..."
reggie@pdn.UUCP (George W. Leach) (12/18/87)
In article <8712171619.AA06474@bu-cs.bu.edu>, TCORAM@UDCVAX.BITNET (maroC ddoT) writes: > Don't mistake bad parents (ones who don't encourage thier children to do > well) for low income (poorly educated) parents who cannot educate thier > children themselves nor afford private schools. I stand corrected. My statements were a bad generalization. I should know better coming from a blue colar neighborhood myself. > Trust me. It doesn't always work. I went to a private school (Catholic school) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ And so did I, but then again so did 90% of the other kids in my neighborhood! > and I still found that I was influenced by the locals. It was like two > different worlds. I went home everyday from school to a place where I was > looked down upon because I went to a private school. This did not help > encourage me to pursue learning. School is only 6 hours out of a day... I think your statements tend to further point out that the technology alone will not FIX our educational problems. It is not a simple problem. There are many aspects that influence who becomes better educated and who drops out of the system. -- George W. Leach Paradyne Corporation {gatech,rutgers,attmail}!codas!pdn!reggie Mail stop LF-207 Phone: (813) 530-2376 P.O. Box 2826 Largo, FL 34649-2826
jpdres10@usl-pc.UUCP (Green Eric Lee) (12/20/87)
Keywords: Summary: Expires: Sender: Reply-To: Followup-To: >From: carlos@jplpro.JPL.NASA.GOV (Carlos Carrion) > We all are familiar with the concept of a Generation Gap, or >a Wealth Gap. But I think that a more ominous concept creeping up on society >is the idea of a Knowledge Gap of which one could say the Technology Gap >is but a subset. > In these days it is not unusual to find people who can't read, who are >afraid of technology (even afraid of information), who mistrust technocrats, >and who resist change. Precursors to ill-fated movements are fear and mistrust >and that is exactly what we have. I think that what you have "discovered" is the large amount of anti-intellectualism rampant in recent Western society. In a society where opportunity for intellectual activity is limited (due to "passive" entertainments such as TV and rock music), and where, in many cases, intellectual activity is actively discouraged (elementary schools, for example, where "control" is the operative word in many instances), there is a large class of people who are incapable of deep intellectual thought. The have-nots always seem to resent the haves, throughout history. So what we have is a large class of people, all of whom resent anything that looks like it requires an iota of thought. I have no idea how to change this. In comp.edu, I've recently posted excerpts from various educational journals, which argue, as reformers have been arguing for the past 50 years, that we should change the mission of elementary education. They argue that the view of child as turkey to stuff and school as "filling station" is invalid, and that we should attempt to not only instill information, but the WHY and HOW of the information. Unfortunately, I don't know if even that would be enough, considering the societial pressures to conform. For example, a child who spends more time reading Joyce than listening to Van Halen, Ratt, Whitesnake, and Poison is likely to be about as popular as a ballet in a redneck bar ("Hey! Get them durn fairies outta here, we want some MACHO entertainment!"). -- Eric Green elg@usl.CSNET P.O. Box 92191, Lafayette, LA 70509 {ihnp4,cbosgd}!killer!elg, {ut-sally,killer}!usl!elg "what exactly is a dream... and what exactly is a joke?" -- Syd Barrett
jefu@pawl22.pawl.rpi.edu (Jeffrey Putnam) (12/22/87)
In article <518@usl-pc.UUCP> writes: >> In these days it is not unusual to find people who can't read, who are >>afraid of technology (even afraid of information), who mistrust technocrats, >>and who resist change. Precursors to ill-fated movements are fear and mistrust >>and that is exactly what we have. > >I think that what you have "discovered" is the large amount of >anti-intellectualism rampant in recent Western society. In a society >where opportunity for intellectual activity is limited (due to >"passive" entertainments such as TV and rock music), and where, in >many cases, intellectual activity is actively discouraged (elementary >schools, for example, where "control" is the operative word in many >instances), there is a large class of people who are incapable of >deep intellectual thought. The have-nots always seem to resent the >haves, throughout history. ... Im not too sure i like this characterization, though i think the phenomenon is real. I have been speculating on this for a while and have come to the conclusion that we are just faced with too much information, and the information we have is just too complex. In a recent Science, De Tocqueville is quoted as saying something like "People would rather believe a simple lie than the complex truth." I think this is really close to the crux of the problem. We are faced with more information than probably ever before (ok, i know this is disputable - i can offer good counterarguments myself, but generally i think it is true). The growth of information available to people in the last few years (say 20 to 50) is enormous, and i think that there is a good chance that we are simply approaching the limits of the human brain to handle that information well. If this were happening it does not seem unreasonable to postulate that one of the effects might be to push people into rejecting that information and seeking simple and dogmat explanations and solutions. One of the other possible effects of this would be that increasingly people would tend to work in fairly narrow specialities where the knowledge needed to understand the specialty could be controlled. The problem of more concern is the first, where people would tend to reject complex explanations in favor of simple ones, especially those offered by some "expert" in the field. They would do this not because the explanations are not closer to the real situation, but because the complexity and information needed to understand the problem and solution are just too much to handle. Further, even though mathemeticians and others are beginning to understand the behavior of complex systems the depth of knowledge necessary to understand the models is often great and far beyond what most of us (myself included, unhappily) can easily understand - thus the models and processes offered tend to look like magic to the uninitiated. Considering things like Hypertext and other information models in this context raises some very interesting questions: Will Hypertext (or other more or less holistic information models) improve the situation by making the large quantities of information more accessible and comprehensible, or will it help to push people to the limits of understanding faster? Will computer modeling of complex models (including graphical representations of the models) make such models more common and useful or will people just see them as pretty graphics and not understand the application of the model to real processes? Im not sure im terribly optimistic. jeff putnam