simsong@manhattan.columbia.edu (Simson L. Garfinkel) (02/03/88)
CDROMs are potentially an important publication medium for databases. You can stamp out databsaes of 560MB for a little more than $40/each. This means that you could restructure the way the database business is operated, from selling access into a large database to selling the database and updates. I don't know if this is going to happen. I hope so. It's a scarry thing for a company to take the database that they make their living on and stamp it onto a CDROM that anybody can buy. But potentially they can make more money by selling it for less (larger audience, and all that.) For users, it makes a lot of technology and information available that wasn't before. For example, at Columibia I can now walk into the library and do a Lexis, Medline, GSI or Readers' Guide search for free, because we have those databases on CDROM. That wouldn't be possible with 1GB magnetic winchesters, no matter how cheap they are, because you still have to get the data. ---- WORMS are interesting for another reason, which has to do with data indestructibility. With a good WORM file system (I have authored several), you can accomidate potentially a fantastic amount of information, with updates, and you retain an audit trail back to day one. This is very attractive to a financial market. It's also attractive to writers who want to track all changes to a document. Just a few thoughts. -simson
bzs@BU-CS.BU.EDU (Barry Shein) (02/04/88)
[Re: Simson L. Garfinkel's message] Although you're correct in saying that a database which fits on a CD/ROM can be stamped out for $40 (if we ignore the $200K+ for the stamping machine) I can't help but want to include the price of the reader in that (I guess around $1K.) I know in some environments (eg. PCs in a library) it's reasonable to think people would just load in what they're interested in, much like a microfiche room. In more distributed environments it seems I either need to leave particular CDs on-line at all times or get operators or machines to mount them. Even jukeboxes don't seem to go very far if people really are vying for the read heads, who wants to wait several minutes to look something up? You really need close to one read head per CD in such environments (perhaps those are just not right uses for CDs? But they are the environments many of us are in, shared resources etc.) Don't I want to access this stuff in my office/home etc w/o having to buy a reader and dozens if not hundreds of CD Roms? I believe the going price to people like me of those CDs is upwards of a few hundred dollars each (I know some are less, but the useful ones seem to cost about that), not $40 (cost of materials, basically.) >For example, at Columibia I can now walk into the library and do a Lexis, >Medline, GSI or Readers' Guide search for free, because we have those databases >on CDROM. That wouldn't be possible with 1GB magnetic winchesters, no matter >how cheap they are, because you still have to get the data. This paragraph I don't understand. They weren't free, the library bought them. Our student computers here are just as "free", if I put a few extra GB disks on them and loaded them with those DBs how would that differ? And next year I can just rewrite them, and put other stuff on them (eg. netnews) that doesn't come in CD form. I am being a devil's advocate here but I'm trying to see what kinds of answers people give to these questions, not sure I'm satisfied with my own. -Barry Shein, Boston University
simsong@WESTEND.COLUMBIA.EDU (Simson L. Garfinkel) (02/04/88)
Barry, The $40/disc cost is quanity 100 prices. Please remember that I've had discs made. If you own the machine, the price drops to $1 or so a disc. If you wanted to make a CDROM right now, you could make 100 for about $4000. This technology is here today. If you make 1000 disks, you can get the cost down to $20 each. At 10000, the cost is $10 or so. That is a disk you can sell at $30, especially if you sell updates to it four times a year. The cost of the reader is also coming down. You can now pick one up for $700 if you try. Since the electronics are nearly identical to consumer CD players (one extra chip), the prices are likely to drop further. Infact, Pioneer sells a unit that will play both CDs, CDROMS, and Video discs, for a little more than $800. Cheaper all the time. Libraries are one of the perfect envrionments for this equipment. Now say you could get a drive that could both read CDROMs and record on WORMS for $500... This machine would replace your hard disk...
berlin@bu-cs.BU.EDU (David K. Fickes) (02/04/88)
In article <8802040343.AA23106@bu-cs.bu.edu> bzs@BU-CS.BU.EDU (Barry Shein) writes: > >[Re: Simson L. Garfinkel's message] > >Don't I want to access this stuff in my office/home etc w/o having to >buy a reader and dozens if not hundreds of CD Roms? I believe the >going price to people like me of those CDs is upwards of a few hundred >dollars each (I know some are less, but the useful ones seem to cost >about that), not $40 (cost of materials, basically.) > Yes, but strangely enough you'll probably end up using several different references. But not hundreds, for instance, I'd love to have Duncan's Radio Guide online in some form...(Its a radio industry measurement guide by area..) A lot of the time I'm looking up information in the DRG and then transfering it to a PC package... On the other hand, I would never attempt to buy information such as 10-K materials because when I need them I can always get a more current filing from several electronic dial-in services... I think CD-ROMS might be great for distribution...??? A nice stable platform (lord knows how many bad tapes we've gotten for the Suns here....(last count four...) Seemingly cheap for high volume and little risk that the data would be destroyed by a "unknowing user"... Also, perhaps your one head per CD argument might not be so clear cut... If you're in a accounting firm or a brokerage house.. maybe... but for most purposes a jukebox might be fine... As opposed to having the material online all the time on winchesters... (Similar use to a removeable storage drive...only without the failure rate due to someone slamming the disk pack :( - david -- ============================================================================== David K. Fickes Center for Einstein Studies/Einstein Papers Project UUCP: ...harvard!bu-it!berlin Boston University BITNET: oth932@bostonu 745 Commonwealth Avenue PHONE: (617) 353-9249 (617) 277-9741 Boston, MA 02215
spetz@QUCIS.BITNET (02/05/88)
Isn't the comparison between write-once media versus write-many media similar to the audio debate between CD-ROM and DAT? From a consumer/user point of view, it seems that DATs and write-many media are more desirable because they allow the flexibility to re-use the storage for different purposes. From a industry/seller point of view, CD-ROMs and write-once media are more desirable because they guarantee that the product cannot be illegally duplicated. Therefore, the industry protects its selling market. Being a consumer, I would therefore prefer to buy equipment and information which can be changed, copied, etc. in much the same way that I prefer equipment that lets me tape a friend's record album. Are "DATs as to CD-ROMS" (audio) the same as "high-capacity Winchesters are to WORMS/CD-ROMS" (data-storage)? Troy Spetz Queen's University, Kingston
sac@well.UUCP (Steve Cisler) (02/06/88)
>stamp out databsaes of 560MB for a little more than $40/each...
There is a company in Dublin Ohio that will press a master and 100
copies for $2000. While that does not include data preparation, it
gives you an idea of how much you can publish for a small sum.pozar@CGL.UCSF.EDU (Tim Pozar) (02/07/88)
sac@well.UUCP (Steve Cisler) wrote: > > >stamp out databsaes of 560MB for a little more than $40/each... > There is a company in Dublin Ohio that will press a master and 100 > copies for $2000. While that does not include data preparation, it > gives you an idea of how much you can publish for a small sum. You should include premastering prices in this 'though. Like using Merdian's CD ROM Publisher or going through a series of test disks.
kwe@bu-cs.BU.EDU (kwe@bu-it.bu.edu (Kent W. England)) (02/10/88)
I saw a reference in InfoWorld this week [pg 24] about how Arthur Anderson & Co has developed a CD ROM for their auditor's that allows them to carry to their client's site all the technical reference material they might need to research client questions. The reference material includes regulations, standards, precedents, and procedures. Anderson has already developed auditing software for portable PCs and their auditors already use PCs in the field. The article doesn't state how often the data changes (once a year?) nor how many copies they produce (must be in the low thousands or upper hundreds). Kent England, Boston U