anatole@metropolis.uucp (Anatole Olczak) (02/27/88)
There hae been much talk of setting up a link between
West and EE-SU.
I'd warn you that it would probably be a big mistake. I
would be afraid that they read something in
"talk.politics.soviet" and get peoples' names on lists.
They have their fingers in more things than you can imagine.
--
Anatole Olczak UUCP: {anywhere}!sun!anatole
Kakoi on durak ARPAnet: anatole@sun.comlivesey@sun.uucp (Jon Livesey) (02/27/88)
In article <33431@metropolis.uucp>, anatole@metropolis.uucp (Anatole Olczak) writes: > > There hae been much talk of setting up a link between > West and EE-SU. > > I'd warn you that it would probably be a big mistake. I > would be afraid that they read something in > "talk.politics.soviet" and get peoples' names on lists. Or even zap you with mind rays.
Hugh_Dempster%mtsg.ubc.ca@BU-IT.BU.EDU (03/01/88)
> There hae been much talk of setting up a link between > West and EE-SU. > > I'd warn you that it would probably be a big mistake. I > would be afraid that they read something in > "talk.politics.soviet" and get peoples' names on lists. > > They have their fingers in more things than you can imagine. > > -- Anatole Olczak <metropolis!anatole%sun.com%bu-cs.bu.edu@bu-it.bu.edu> I'm not sure just what you're worried about. By "they" are you referring to the CIA?
eric@RUTGERS.EDU (03/01/88)
>> There hae been much talk of setting up a link between >> West and EE-SU. >> >> I'd warn you that it would probably be a big mistake. I >> would be afraid that they read something in >> "talk.politics.soviet" and get peoples' names on lists. >> >> They have their fingers in more things than you can imagine. >> >> -- Anatole Olczak <metropolis!anatole%sun.com%bu-cs.bu.edu@bu-it.bu.edu> > >I'm not sure just what you're worried about. By "they" are you referring to >the CIA? I suppose the person who emitted this reply thought he was being clever. Unlike some emigres of my acquaintance, he has never had to live in fear of KGB goon squads. Here is a fact: in the Soviet Union, "defamation of the Soviet State" is a crime for which you can be thrown in jail. Or "treated" with mind-destroying drugs. Or sent to Siberia. Or simply shot. And, glasnost or no glasnost, these things are still happening to hundreds (possibly thousands) of dissidents every year. It could be *literally* more than a Soviet citizen's life is worth to be a known participant in some of what goes on in, say, talk.politics.misc. Ask anyone who has lived there as a native. Is that clear enough for you? Eric S. Raymond (the mad mastermind of TMN-Netnews) UUCP: {{seismo,ihnp4,rutgers}!cbmvax,sdcrdcf!burdvax,vu-vlsi}!snark!eric Post: 22 South Warren Avenue, Malvern, PA 19355 Phone: (215)-296-5718
jack@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) (03/01/88)
In article <33431@metropolis.uucp> anatole@metropolis.uucp (Anatole Olczak) writes: > >There hae been much talk of setting up a link between >West and EE-SU. > >I'd warn you that it would probably be a big mistake. I >would be afraid that they read something in >"talk.politics.soviet" and get peoples' names on lists. > >They have their fingers in more things than you can imagine. I don't think that this is a valid argument against a usenet connection to the USSR. Note that I don't want to belittle Anatole's fears (like some others seem to be doing), even though I don't share them; my only point is that not allowing the USSR onto usenet won't make those people any more safe. If the Russians are really interested in who posts what about them on some newsgroup they can probably find out already. By saying 'life might get dangerous when the USSR gets netnews' you sort-of implicitly state that it is currently safe to say anything you want. This is manifestly untrue. 'Security-by-secretiveness' is not security. Ask any operating systems person about it. -- Jack Jansen, jack@cwi.nl (or jack@mcvax.uucp) The shell is my oyster.
anatole@metropolis.uucp (Anatole Olczak) (03/02/88)
From article <931125@mtsg.ubc.ca>, by Hugh_Dempster%mtsg.ubc.ca@BU-IT.BU.EDU: > > I'm not sure just what you're worried about. By "they" are you referring to > the CIA? > Probably CIA and KGB, not necessarily in that order! -- Anatole Olczak UUCP: {anywhere}!sun!anatole Kakoi on durak ARPAnet: anatole@sun.com
ganzer@trout.NOSC.MIL (Mark T. Ganzer) (03/03/88)
In article <8802291850.AA15821@snark.UUCP>, !snark!eric@RUTGERS.EDU writes: > It could be *literally* more than a Soviet citizen's life is worth to be a > known participant in some of what goes on in, say, talk.politics.misc. Ask > anyone who has lived there as a native. > > Is that clear enough for you? > I know this has been all discussed before, but this line of reasoning still doesn't seem like a good reason not to have a West-East link. The person living in the Soviet Union has had to deal communications monitoring their entire life, so they aren't going to do anything to get themselves into trouble in such a public forum, especially when they are used to the possibility that their PRIVATE communications are being monitored. Everyone on Usenet is still subject to the laws of their own country. So a U.S. citizen that has access to National Security Information (classified information) is not free to discuss classified information, even if it appears on the net from outside the U.S. . Similarly, U.S. participants are subject to U.S. export regulations covering the material they are discussing. Thus, a Soviet citizen is not going to violate soviet law by "slandering the Soviet state" on Usenet just because it's there. Or he could claim that it's a counterfeit posting :-) (actually not all that funny) As for KGB (or CIA, FBI, etc) information gathering, because it is easy to get public access to Usenet (Through a number of sites or a feed from uunet), if they wanted to do it, it's already being done. If you're worried that your name might show up on someone's list ( or worried that something that you write may be used against you when you're nominated for the Supreme Court :-), you probably shouldn't be here. I'll leave all the POLITICAL discussiion of this issue to talk.politics.misc. -- MarK T. Ganzer Naval Ocean Systems Center, San Diego UUCP: {bonnie,sdcsvax,gould9,hp-sdd} - !nosc!ganzer {apl-uw,ncr-sd,bang,crash } / Internet: ganzer@nosc.mil