eric@snark.UUCP (11/18/88)
Sigh. Well, those of us who remember the talk.politics.misc wars know that the otherwise estimable Mr. Shein tends to go a bit crazy and foam at the mouth when confronted with that dread bogie, libertarianism. You spoke some truths, Jeff. But you picked the wrong place to do it. This is *Barry's* patch. See the piles of excrement marking the boundaries? ;-) Eric (*not* having a 'tantrum') Raymond
bzs@PINOCCHIO.BERKELEY.EDU (Barry Shein) (11/18/88)
Drop the alligator tears Eric, Jeff Daiell was merely spray-painting graffitti on the list, he said nothing even remotely worthwhile (unless mere repetition of mindless dogma is all it takes for you to consider something worthwhile.) Had he said something more interesting/germaine than "Hitler was a socialist!" there would have been no problem. It is not Libertarianism per se anyone is complaining about or trying to discourage, that's a convenient oh-so-moral-sounding position for you to take. Lie on the ground groaning "discrimination! discrimination", tugs the right chains, eh? Post some interesting proposal to fund networks or some such thing relating to the future of technology based on a Libertarian view of the future that can manage to be slightly deeper than "Hitler was a socialist!" and I'm sure folks, including myself, would be interested. But just babble slogans having nothing to do with the topic at hand (other than tied by some vague thread of "who pays the bill") and you're just a trite boor, wasting everyone's time and mostly just someone to be ignored. I am disgusted that you encourage his behavior and that you consider Jeff Daiell's postings intellectually fascinating, I would be ashamed to associate myself with such drivel. -Barry Shein, ||Encore||
jeffd@ficc.uu.net (jeff daiell) (11/20/88)
In article <8811181529.AA06739@pinocchio.UUCP>, bzs@PINOCCHIO.BERKELEY.EDU (Barry Shein) writes: > > Had he said something more interesting/germaine than "Hitler was a > socialist!" there would have been no problem. I wish BS would quite taking this out of context. Someone replied to a wish that computernets be funded voluntaristicly by sneering, "Sounds like something Ronnie would write." I objected to the guilt-by-association, and pointed out that, just because Hitler liked chocolates, it doesn't mean that every chocolate lover is a socialist. It was an analogy, not the main point of my posting. > > > Post some interesting proposal to fund networks or some such thing > relating to the future of technology based on a Libertarian view of > the future I did. Private, non-coercively funded, competing and/or cooperating companies. But there are other ways, including users' associations, cooperatives, nets provided as incentives or fringe benefits, etc. Means that don't involve forcing persons to pay for something they don't use. > > (other than tied by some vague thread of "who pays the bill") I'm sorry BS doesn't consider this important. I find it a matter of fundamental justice. If computer users force the taxpayers to fund a net, should gunowners demand tax-paid firearms? Or church-goers a subsidy for their expenses? All too often, we translate "needs" and "wants" into "rights" -- that is, too many people believe they are entitled to good or service X just because they want it, and therefore feel entitled to compel others to provide it. Whether one does this directly (i.e., with a Saturday Night Special) or indirectly (i.e., via the Income Robbery Syndicate) is irrelevant. It's still wrong, and right-vs.-wrong is the most basic question of all. Thanks for reading. Jeff Daiell (opinions my own, at least until the IRS confiscates them) -- Fiat Justitia, Ruat Caelum
smryan@garth.UUCP (Steven Ryan) (11/23/88)
>You spoke some truths, Jeff. But you picked the wrong place to do it. This >is *Barry's* patch. See the piles of excrement marking the boundaries? ;-) If the government paid for toilets, then we wouldn't have net.libbers pooping on the border try to get in. -- -- s m ryan --------------------------------------- _ Then Guthrun crossed the wasted lands and combed her hair with sooty hands. Alone she watched the oceans churning, and sang of heroes, fame most yearning.