hack%lock.span@VLSI.JPL.NASA.GOV (Edmund Hack) (01/11/89)
Recently, Nick Taylor (mcvax!ukc!etive!hwcs!nick@uunet.uu.net) said: >... >I think we need to be able to restrict access in order to prevent the >mischievous and malicious from making the net unworkable. [Comments?] >However, when we talk about restrictions we have to do our best to ensure >that they are not used as a (very powerful) tool of repression. > >Now, I don't want to go running off down the Big Brother avenue again so >how about this as an idea: > >Create a system whereby people can have their access suspended by popular >demand. An automated voting system could be instituted which would accept >nominations for suspension and votes for and against. If the votes for minus >the votes against exceed some number (which should be some proportion of those >who could have been adversely affected by the defendant's activities) then >the defendant should be suspended. The defendant should be given one final >opportunity to defend himself (in case his supporters had not realized how >seriously others were treating the issue) and if the result still held the >suspension would be implemented. [Comments?] >... An alternative approach to "banishing" people for unpopular opinions and/or obnoxious postings is better mail reading software. Set up the mail reader at your own node to exclude the messages of people you don't want to hear from and also the direct replies. As more and more people get hooked to nets, the problem of electronic junk mail is going to increase. On CompuServe, I have already gotten several mail messages that were solicitations to buy things. Paper junk mail I don't mind - it helps pay for the USPS and I can look at the envelope and toss it if I recognize it as an ad for something I don't want. But, electronic junk mail costs _me_ money in the form of connect charges. A similar problem has arisen on Fax machines - junk mail by Fax has started to be a problem at some companies. It ties up the machine when it is needed for company affairs. The solution here will possibly be 2-pronged - unlisted Fax numbers for use inside the company (between offices, etc.) and Fax machines that refuse calls except from known machines. (The current high end Fax machine we use here at NASA prints the originating number at the bottom of the first page.) However, malicious access, such as sending worms and flooding the net with harassing mail is dealt with in 2 ways - as a crime if over a public or private network (it's illegal to do such things in Texas now and one conviction has been made for erasing records in a corporate mainframe), or with termination of service if over a commercial network (as CompuServe will do if you are abusive). I am wary of "voting" types of schemes as they can be abused to suppress the rights of minorities easily. I could see where Communists, Atheists and just plain strange people could be banished for having unpopular opinions and expressing them out loud. Anyway, there are my 2 centavos worth. { I may have sent a null message out earlier - if so, I apologize - the power glitched in our building, knocking my PC offline from our VAX } Edmund Hack ARPA: hack%lock.span@vlsi.jpl.nasa.gov AI and Telerobotics Dept. SPAN: lock::hack Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Co. Johnson Space Center Houston, TX "All opinions expressed herein are not known to be held by any bureaucrat."
fbaube@NOTE.NSF.GOV ("F.Baube") (01/12/89)
Nick Taylor: > >Create a system whereby people can have their access suspended by > >popular demand. An automated voting system .. Edmund Hack: > An alternative approach to "banishing" people for unpopular > opinions and/or obnoxious postings is better mail reading > software. Set up the mail reader at your own node to exclude the > messages of people you don't want to hear from and also the > direct replies .. Doesn't this get us back the the discussion of some months ago about intelligent filters that a user would run on remote nodes to selectively forward message traffic ? Wasn't it tied into the hypertext discussion ? #include <disclaimer.h>
doug@isishq.FIDONET.ORG (Doug Thompson) (01/14/89)
EH>From: hack%lock.span@VLSI.JPL.NASA.GOV (Edmund Hack) EH>I am wary of "voting" types of schemes as they can be abused EH>to suppress the EH>rights of minorities easily. I could see where Communists, Atheists and EH>just plain strange people could be banished for having unpopular opinions EH>and expressing them out loud. EH> EH>Anyway, there are my 2 centavos worth. EH> Interesting. "I may disagree with what you say, but I'd fight for your right to say it . . . " (Voltaire). The idea of network police who could tell anyone that they could not say what they are saying it quite frightening to me. It's not because The jeff daffodils of this world would be silenced, but that we all would exercise self-censorship to avoid drawing ourselves to the attention of the thought-e-mail-police. Social pressure is cool. Write to the one who offends you and tell him you are offended. That works if you are dealing with real people. If you are dealing with idealogues, or people being paid to propagandize, it probably won't work. The custom kill program (I've written several that are quite nice) allows each user to avert his eyes or stop his ears. I'm very reluctant to even think about anything more official or more potent than that. Freedom of speech, and freedom to criticise anyone is really fundamental to a free society. In another week I'll probably automatically kill all msgs from Jeff Daffodil, but that only effects me. Other users can still read his msgs if they want. I think that is important. To update Voltaire, "I may kill all msgs from you, but I'll fight for your right to post it, and I'll let it reside on my disks". The ideal kill program informs the author by netmail each time a message is killed. Posters of pure crap should get the message soon enough :-) . . . I'm working on it . . . =Doug -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fido 1:221/162 -- 1:221/0 280 Phillip St., UUCP: !watmath!isishq!doug Unit B-4-11 DAS: [DEZCDT]doug Waterloo, Ontario Bitnet: fido@water Canada N2L 3X1 Internet: doug@isishq.math.fidonet.org (519) 746-5022 ------------------------------------------------------------------------