bzs@pinocchio.encore.com (Barry Shein) (01/10/89)
>I have been wondering why there is so much discussion about >the electoral college, texas and its independence, and capitalism >on a mailing list that is (I thought) supposed to involved with >things like why one memory model looks better than another one for >a given type of architecture, why CD-ROM isn't a good choice for >certain types of filesystems but excellent for archives, and so on. Exactly, you've got one loser like jeff daiell and then of course two or three other people get sucked in and before you know it there's a several messages per day on some irrelevant topic. Other than moderating I think the best suggestion is that others send him (and others) direct e-mail notes indicating their displeasure with the abuse of the list whenever one shows up. Perhaps the sheer volume will discourage him or convince him that it's not just one grumpy mailing list owner who is sick of this stupidity. It would really be nice to think that someone (particularly someone who claims to be a libertarian!) would show a little self-restraint without begging that someone else play Nanny State and force him to behave (unless his attraction to reduction of govt is the prospect of being able to obnoxiously annoy anyone he chooses without fear of reprisal beyond ignoring pleas to stop.) I hope you don't mind me Cc'ing the list with this reply. -Barry Shein, ||Encore||
jeffd@ficc.uu.net (jeff daiell) (01/10/89)
In article <8901091902.AA05549@pinocchio.UUCP>, bzs@pinocchio.encore.com (Barry Shein) writes: > > >I have been wondering why there is so much discussion about > >the electoral college, texas and its independence, and capitalism > >on a mailing list that is (I thought) supposed to involved with > >things like why one memory model looks better than another one for > >a given type of architecture, why CD-ROM isn't a good choice for > >certain types of filesystems but excellent for archives, and so on. > > Exactly, you've got one loser like jeff daiell and then of course two > or three other people get sucked in and before you know it there's a > several messages per day on some irrelevant topic. Barry, I did *not* get the discussion of whether the compnet should be voluntarily or coercively funded started. Check again. Someone else urged voluntaristic funding, another person tried to discredit that approach not on its merits, but on the grounds that it seemed like the sort of thing a certain Washingtonian might say. Since that's not really a valid way to debate a subject, I pointed out the method's lack of validity ("guilt by association"). > It would really be nice to think that someone (particularly someone > who claims to be a libertarian!) Maybe my memory is getting as bad as yours, BS, but I don't recall anyone identifying himself or herself as a libertarian. You're the one applying that term (Goering decided who was a Jew, BS decides who's a libertarian) -- and you've generally done so to invoke, as did the person who prompted my first posting, guilt by association. > would show a little self-restraint > without begging that someone else play Nanny State and force him to > behave Hey, guy, *I'm* not the one throwing tantrums and slinging around words like "loser" and "illiterate". Question: if the New England Journal of Medicine carried an article on whether medicine should remain half-private/half-governmental, be privatized, or be socialized, would you call the author of that article such names, just because s/he pointed out that such a question would be significant to the future of health care? > (unless his attraction to reduction of govt is the prospect of > being able to obnoxiously annoy anyone he chooses without fear of > reprisal beyond ignoring pleas to stop.) Speaking of illiteracy ... are you saying the reprisal I fear is that I will ignore pleas to stop? Or that the reprisal I fear is that others will ignore *my* pleas for *them* to stop? In which case, stop what? Do be more careful with your sentence construction before calling someone else "illiterate", BS. Or will your next posting say, "Jeff Daiell doesn't use English too good"??? And, oh, yes -- do remember to capitalize proper names, old chap. With all appropriate respect, Jeff Daiell (opinions my own, until taxed away) INDEPENDENCE FOR TEXAS! -- "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good... O Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood." --- The Animals
childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) (01/19/89)
bzs@pinocchio.encore.com (Barry Shein) writes: >>I have been wondering why there is so much discussion about >>the electoral college, texas and its independence, and capitalism >>on a mailing list that is (I thought) supposed to involved with >>things like why one memory model looks better than another one for >>a given type of architecture, why CD-ROM isn't a good choice for >>certain types of filesystems but excellent for archives, and so on. >Exactly, you've got one loser like jeff daiell and then of course two >or three other people get sucked in and before you know it there's a >several messages per day on some irrelevant topic. Whoa !!!! Last time *I* checked, this was a UUCP newsgroup called comp.society.futures. I don't see how the inclusion of 'society' and / or 'future(s)' ( which suggests a plethora of possibilities, not a single destination ) connotates the strict exclusion of anything except ... >>things like why one memory model looks better than another one for >>a given type of architecture, why CD-ROM isn't a good choice for >>certain types of filesystems but excellent for archives, and so on. Perhaps I missed something ? Or is the 'moderator' losing his moderation ? >Other than moderating I think the best suggestion is that others send >him (and others) direct e-mail notes indicating their displeasure with >the abuse of the list whenever one shows up. Perhaps the sheer volume >will discourage him or convince him that it's not just one grumpy >mailing list owner who is sick of this stupidity. I found his comments topically relevant, interesting, and entertaining. > -Barry Shein, ||Encore|| -- richard -- * Bismillah hir-Rahman nir-Rahim * * * * ..{amdahl|decwrl|octopus|pyramid|ucbvax}!avsd.UUCP!childers@tycho * * AMPEX Corporation - Audio-Visual Systems Division, R & D *
bzs@pinocchio.encore.com (Barry Shein) (01/20/89)
From: avsd!childers@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Richard Childers) >Last time *I* checked, this was a UUCP newsgroup called comp.society.futures. > >I don't see how the inclusion of 'society' and / or 'future(s)' ( which >suggests a plethora of possibilities, not a single destination ) connotates >the strict exclusion of anything except ... Yes, you are utterly confused. First, remember this newsgroup is a gateway for an ARPAnet discussion group. Where it sits in the news hierarchy may or may not be perfectly clear (it's decided by others), but it does NOT define the topic of the group. The group is defined by its ARPA list of lists charter. The comp. prefix indicates any discussion therein is pertaining to computing, so it's not too far off (you are tho, why you chose to ignore that fact is curious.) The purposes of the various groups on the USENET are available in the newusers announcements which are your responsibility to check, it's not sufficient to speculate based on the newsgroup's name. If it was for discussion of anything it would be talk.society.futures or perhaps misc.society.futures or even soc.society.futures. I agree the charter is somewhat broad but the emphasis is clearly on technology, computing technology. Again, here's the charter (hmm, they still haven't changed the addresses to ENCORE.COM, I'll remind someone, I've edited it as the addresses SHOULD appear but everything else is intact): INFO-FUTURES@ENCORE.COM INFO-FUTURES@ENCORE.COM (ARPA) ...!encore!info-futures (UUCP) Digest to provide a speculative forum for analyzing current and likely events in technology as they will affect our near future in computing and related areas. In broad terms, topics of interest include developments in both computing research and industry which are likely to affect our decision making, particularly decisions we are probably grappling with right this minute. Technologies can change so rapidly that simply forecasting for needs within any organization one or two years in advance can be extremely difficult, frequently we are forced to provide foundations that effectively lock us into a technology for longer periods of time. It is hoped the information this list provides can help both the practitioner and researcher determine where best to expend resources. All requests to be added to or deleted from this list, problems, questions, etc., should be sent to INFO-FUTURES-REQUEST@ENCORE.COM. Moderator: Barry Shein <bzs@encore.com>
U1DF1@WVNVM.WVNET.EDU ("John Neubert") (01/20/89)
Well, one of what I consider the great points in my life was learning
from a wise high school history teacher that there are shades of
gray... that no (or at least very few) issues are all black or white.
I feel this is one of them. And since weather forecasting has learned
the same thing over the last decade (and also to allay the irate tennis
player who gets rained on during what was to be a clear day), I will
use percenatges: Barry (strict definition) 70 %
Looser definition 30 %.
These are of course my opinions, and like the weather forecasts, may
bear little resemblance to reality. I *am* interested in how this
technology is going to affect society (or, to be more proactive,
how society can affect the technology for the good), but when you try
to make one discussion group cover too much territory, it looses
the concentrated effect of a centered discussion. INFO-FUTURES is
already broad when you realize that there are groups that discuss
specific hardare and software, one that handles workstations in general,
others that handle the specific microprocessors, etc, etc. INFO-
FUTURES is already broad enough for me if it sticks to the charter
Barry gave in the message I reference. I do not mind the occassion
digression (such as the management, funding, control issue which has
caused the concern), but I'd rather we all be good CBers and move the
discussion to a pertinent list once the tangent is recognized. If
such a list is not readily apparent, ask the list for suggestions or
even offer to carry it on by private email.
The effects of technology are important to all of us. One of the things
I liked about UM during the 70's was that they had a course called
"Computers and Society". It was the only CS course that you could find
females in for one thing! Of course, it could not be counted towards
the CS major. But seriously, it had a broad spectrum of people, from
nurses, to managers, to a CSer like myself. I really think such a course
should be required for all majors at this juncture in man's history.
But, heck, UM probably doesn't even give it any longer. Perhaps there
is even such a list out there. If so, the political/economic discussion
should move there... please.
--------------------------
On the technology front, I would appreciate hearing from our European
colleagues. There is much work going on there in parallel processing.
Two areas I'm very interested in are Transputer-based systems and
Helios... that combination can outclass any Sun or Mach-based NeXT.
What are you coming up with over on the other side of the pond?nick@cs.hw.ac.uk (Nick Taylor) (01/20/89)
Thanks to BS for sending out the CSF's charter. I don't, however, remember any suggestion that we should consider the societal effects of CD ROMs in either his or the original poster's postings. On a more pedantic note, CSFers might be interested to note that the STV voting system can only be properly implemented to arrive at an accurate result in a reasonable period of time through the use of computers. The Irish use a manual system and put up with a certain amount of inaccuracy in the count in order to get the results out within days (as opposed to weeks). So we have ended up back with computer technology after all. Nick Taylor "I have seen the future - and it smirks" Who said this please? Department of Computer Science JANET : NICK@UK.AC.HW.CS Heriot-Watt University ARPANET : NICK@CS.HW.AC.UK 79 Grassmarket /\ / o __ /_ UUCP : ...!UKC!CS.HW.AC.UK!NICK Edinburgh EH1 2HJ / \ / / / /__) Tel : +44 31 225 6465 Ext. 532 United Kingdom / \/ (_ (___ / \ Fax : +44 31 449 5153
nick@cs.hw.ac.uk (Nick Taylor) (01/20/89)
ERRATUM : In my previous posting, "societal effects" should, of course,
have been "future effects". Another data point for Freud!
Cheers,
Nick.
PS. I hope all the other groups will be informed that they should desist
from discussing the future of their particular areas of computing since
it properly belongs in csf! Should increase the traffic here somewhat,
don't you think :-)?HyperDriven@cup.portal.com (Joseph C McDonald) (02/09/89)
/Gateways/Usenet/comp/society.futures/Re: desktop of the future 6878.3.113.6 psychology of computer use. 1/11/89 16:51 greenwoo@mizar.usc.edu (al greenwood) Lines 1 to 10 of 10 (100%) ----- al greenwood writes: > Something which I wish was discussed more in this group. The Psychology of > Computer Use and of Computer Communications will determine not only how > new technology is viewed but how it is used.. >This is my area of research, and Ive been hoping to link up with individuals w> >I do have a question for everyone.. The one study done in this area.. states >that Computer Communication causes users to like each other less.. Do you agr> No I do not agree. In fact I find that just the opposite is true. (however it is kinda easy to flake out on E-mail :) ) I generally like all people online. But I have seen some bitter flame wars but they are only 2 people at a time (usually) and bring quite a bit of attention to themselves. interesting subject... ----------------------------- HyperDriven@cup.portal.com I think sometimes sometimes I think ..... --Ron Greeny -=Joseph McDonald=-
71361.370@CompuServe.COM (Adele Hoskin) (12/30/89)
Please add me to your lists. I am a librarian in Indiana and am interested in information technology. I am alos president of our state network which tries to acquant librarians with new technology and its uses in delivering information. my name is Adele Hoskin and my e-mail address is 71361.370@compuserve.com