alleng@killer.UUCP (11/05/87)
Enough is enough! I started reading this newsgroup when a friend told
me that there was a heated debate on the legalization of drugs.
I did not realize at the time that the purpose of this group is for the
discussion of the *recreational* use of illicit substances. I have
been sitting (largely) in the background reading the debates. Although
the points made are good and valid, this newsgroup is not the place for
this type of discussion. John... you and Eric are not going to change
anyone's mind in this group on this subject anymore than they are going
to change yours. Regardless of how anyone feels on this net, whether
you are an avid abuser or violently opposed to the use/abuse of drugs
this is not the place to express those opinions. Perhaps a better
place for this would be misc.legal (even alt.flame!). Maybe the people
using this newsgroup for its intended purpose will cease responding (or
move with the discussion). Eric, if you feel so strongly, rather than just
pissing people off (for no purpose), perhaps a better use of your time
would be to gather names and net addresses and pass the information along to
the DEA or FBI (who would probably be glad recipients of the information).
Meanwhile, lets do these guys a favor and get out of their hair. Their
lives seem complicated enough, and its one less thing they will have to
deal with!
--
Allen Gwinn / email: {ihnp4!decvax!killer}!sulaco!allen
\ USPS: P.O. Box 740444, Dallas, TX 75374-0444holland@reed.UUCP (11/09/87)
In article <2005@killer.UUCP>, alleng@killer.UUCP (Allen Gwinn) writes: > ... Eric, if you feel so strongly, rather than just > pissing people off (for no purpose), perhaps a better use of your time > would be to gather names and net addresses and pass the information along to > the DEA or FBI (who would probably be glad recipients of the information). > Meanwhile, lets do these guys a favor and get out of their hair. Their > lives seem complicated enough, and its one less thing they will have to > deal with! and I don't like this. Newsgroup alt.drugs is indeed not the place for people to express their opinions about legalization of drugs. Move that shit to misc.legal. But collecting names from people admitting they have used drugs doesn't do any good. First of all, the network administration would have to remove youur site from the "alt" list. This means the complete list, so everything that starts with alt. would be inaccessible for you. Second, and this really belongs in misc.legal, admitting having used drugs is not illegal. It'll only screw you over when you run for president or when you are nominated for the supreme court, and I am sure none of us are really going to. Yes Allen, my life is complicated enough, but I can cope. Drugs might even be able to help me. Yes, give my name to the FBI, have the Feds search my room, search the whole College, but what would it do? It would certainly not do you any good! -Mike -- Michael L. Reerink | Disclaimer: I don't have an employer so I don't need Reed College | a disclaimer. But I might as well just fill these 3 Portland, Oregon | lines with one. The rest of this space is for sale.
wab@reed.UUCP (11/10/87)
In article <2005@killer.UUCP> alleng@killer.UUCP (Allen Gwinn) writes: >Perhaps a better >place for this would be misc.legal (even alt.flame!). Maybe the people >using this newsgroup for its intended purpose will cease responding (or >move with the discussion). Eric, if you feel so strongly, rather than just >pissing people off (for no purpose), perhaps a better use of your time >would be to gather names and net addresses and pass the information along to >the DEA or FBI (who would probably be glad recipients of the information). >Meanwhile, lets do these guys a favor and get out of their hair. Their >lives seem complicated enough, and its one less thing they will have to >deal with! > Before I get serious, let me say that with an attitude like yours, I think you'd be more comfortable in a police state like Chile. Why don't you move there and make life easier for the rest of us? To business: Your suggestion is highly illegal and if you or Mr. Mading or anyone else with access to this newsgroup attempts to follow up and report my name to the DEA or FBI, I will sue you until you are bleeding from the ears. Postings to a public newsgroup cannot be held as legal evidence since, even though they come from an account associated with someone's name, it cannot be definitely determined that the person to whom that account belongs actually posted the message. Therefore, USENET postings are inadmissable heresay and any transferral of USENET material to a government agency for the purpose of instigating an investigation constitutes an attempt to slander and harass the individual to whom the account belongs from which the posting was made. Lest you think this an empty threat, be aware that though I am posting from a college account I am not a peniless college student but a professional with plenty of money and access to legal resources. I also have reason to check my status with various government agencies periodically (an amazing amount of information is available through the Freedom of Information Act, including tips made on cases after they have been found to be groundless) so I will find out. Besides which, if you were to report my name to the DEA or FBI, I would track you down and pound your ass into the ground. USENET postings are an expression of the First Amendment right to free speech. It is a section of the Constitution with which, I imagine, you are not too familiar. Moral: Don't post threats on USENET. That's not what it's for. > Allen Gwinn / email: {ihnp4!decvax!killer}!sulaco!allen > \ USPS: P.O. Box 740444, Dallas, TX 75374-0444 I'm saving the above just in case. I find it significant that you live in Texas. -- Bill Baker tektronix!reed!wab
turpin@ut-sally.UUCP (11/13/87)
In article <7694@reed.UUCP>, wab@reed.UUCP (William Baker) writes: Long rebuke against someone trying to use USENET postings as source of tips to narcs. > Moral: Don't post threats on USENET. That's not what it's > for. > I'm saving the above just in case. I find it significant that you live > in Texas. > -- > Bill Baker Bill, Not only am I posting from Texas, I was raised here. If you follow my posting at all, you know that I am one of the most ardent supporters of drug legalization, free speech, and citizens' rights (vis-a-vis the police) that you can find on the net. Moral: Be wary of broad generalizations. Russell
alleng@killer.UUCP (11/13/87)
In article <7694@reed.UUCP> wab@reed.UUCP (William Baker) writes: >In article <2005@killer.UUCP> alleng@killer.UUCP (Allen Gwinn) writes: >>Eric, if you feel so strongly, rather than just >>pissing people off (for no purpose), perhaps a better use of your time >>would be to gather names and net addresses and pass the information along to >>the DEA or FBI (who would probably be glad recipients of the information). >> >To business: Your suggestion is highly illegal and if you >or Mr. Mading or anyone else with access to this newsgroup >attempts to follow up and report my name to the DEA or FBI, >I will sue you until you are bleeding from the ears. >Postings to a public newsgroup cannot be held as legal ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >evidence since, even though they come from an account ^^^^^^^^ OK... What are you going to use for legal evidence when you sue me until I am "bleeding from the ears". And, Bill, when you sue me, why don't you just put forth a class action lawsuit on behalf of *all* individuals busted for possession, use, abuse, sale, etc... of narcotics against all informants in all of those cases! And don't forget to file the lawsuit in Federal District Court since your "evidence" crosses state lines. >Besides which, if you were to report my name to the DEA >or FBI, I would track you down and pound your ass into the >ground. >... >I'm saving the above just in case. I find it significant that you live >in Texas. However, making physical threats of violence against a person *IS* illegal, Bill, in any forum. So while you are using your... >...access to legal resources. ...you better check out the definition of "assault" and "aggravated". So, Bill, I would like to give you a little advice: >Moral: Don't post threats on USENET. That's not what it's >for. > > Bill Baker > tektronix!reed!wab And to the rest of the group. With reference to the article written, I think it would be wise for each and every one of you to take it and "ponder it in your heart". That article was written with *GREAT* amounts of sarcasm. Since this newsgroup was started, I have seen things that would make a persons hair curl! There are people telling "what I did last weekend" and "how much I paid for this stuff" stories! Its not what I might say, or Eric, or John or anybody else thats going to get people into trouble (and by the way, Bill, I don't particularly like informants any more than you do), its what the people *themselves* say. Obviously there are many people on the net that are not into keeping their private lives private. And, yes it is true, Bill, that you cannot use this type of electronic information as evidence in a court of law, but it can be "probable cause" for *ANY* law enforcement agency to obtain a search warrant. Further, I imagine that Eric (or anybody else) wouldn't *have* to give information to enforcement agencies... did it ever cross anyone's mind that people from those very agencies subscribe to these types of news services? So please, people, before you go flaming, griping, complaining, etc... please make sure that you have examined all sides of a situation. Though some things want to make you tear someone's head off (if I had been in some of your shoes the original article might have done it), some people on this network have principles and beliefs that may differ from yours. There are ways to rebut anything without having to resort to lows like name-calling and threats of violence. These do nothing for your character or position. Good day... -- Allen Gwinn / email: {ihnp4!decvax!killer}!sulaco!allen \ USPS: P.O. Box 740444, Dallas, TX 75374-0444