paco@oakhill.UUCP (Paco) (08/25/89)
In article <307@cbnewsj.ATT.COM> dwex@mtgzx.ATT.COM (d.e.wexelblat) writes: >In article <4215@udccvax1.acs.udel.EDU> tom@vax1.acs.udel.EDU (tom) writes: >> alt.drugs is not dying. it is merely being censored by a small group of >> narrow-minded fools at at&t. it will probably lose some connectivity. > >What you will most likely accomplish, you narrow-minded fools, is to lose >access to comp.sys.att for those of use that want to read it. Your (plural) >self-centered attitude about your illegal habits is now jeopardizing a >very useful technical group in addition to your (IMHO) worthless group. >GET OUT OF COMP.SYS.ATT!!! Followups to alt.drugs, and flames via mail. >Stop cluttering this group. We have enough of our own clutter! > > >David Wexelblat dweeb@mtgzx.att.com >AT&T Bell Laboratories ...!att!mtgzx!dweeb >200 Laurel Ave - 4B-421 >Middletown, NJ 07748 What does "those of use" imply???? Somehow, uncensored discussions aren't quite isomorphic to "self-centered attitude about your illegal habits". Hearing sheep like Wexelblat babble makes me so happy to have left AT&T a few months back. Tell me David, do AT&T managers still come around and solicit required payroll deductions for the AT&T Political Action Committee? I'll bet you contribute happily with a grin on your face and wear marks on your knees. You'd fit in well with 59211 in Red Hill. I was in Burns' department when AT&T Security sent in the dear undercover police plant as a "secretary" to rid Bell Labs' "sacred" halls of the "drug problem". I saw three valuable members of the department get suspended in the sleaziest possible illegal sting operation and I read the misinformation that Monmouth County police orgs and AT&T PR blasted all over the local papers. The police spy was ugly, leather mini-skirt, plastic makeup and all; I almost vomited when she offered "some fun" in return for a chem purchase. She wasn't even a cop, but had participated to get a reduced fine for cocaine possession. I watched increduluously as my managers instructed me "never talk about the incident or Else" and I walked shortly thereafter. Right, talking about drugs is taboo at AT&T, I should have remembered. I also witnessed my hardworking roommate get laid off from AT&T in Red Hill only to be replaced the next week by a cute blond who knew nothing about Unix systems administration but got along *real well* with her manager. Funny thing that AT&T was the first big company to get sued for EEO violations and the only "computer company" to have frequent union troubles. They don't seem to care much about people, rather they emphasize perceptions. Funny, but emphasizing altered perceptions over realism falls into the general category of hallucination. Somehow, I DON'T find discussion of AT&T's notion of computer systems, policy, ethics, etc. and alt.drugs all that incongruous... It fries my blood, however to see some jerk post over here in alt.drugs telling people who share an interest in thinking for themselves, what to do. paco. ---------------------------------------------------------------- These are my own opinions, talk about them with me, not my boss, who, by the way, probably agrees and would tell any complainers to go to hell anyway.
bob@cmpfen.UUCP (Bob Breum) (08/25/89)
paco@oakhill.UUCP (Paco) writes: >In article <307@cbnewsj.ATT.COM> dwex@mtgzx.ATT.COM (d.e.wexelblat) writes: >>In article <4215@udccvax1.acs.udel.EDU> tom@vax1.acs.udel.EDU (tom) writes: >>> alt.drugs is not dying. it is merely being censored by a small group of >>> narrow-minded fools at at&t. it will probably lose some connectivity. >> >>What you will most likely accomplish, you narrow-minded fools, is to lose >>access to comp.sys.att for those of use that want to read it. Your (plural) >>self-centered attitude about your illegal habits is now jeopardizing a >>very useful technical group in addition to your (IMHO) worthless group. >>GET OUT OF COMP.SYS.ATT!!! Followups to alt.drugs, and flames via mail. >>Stop cluttering this group. We have enough of our own clutter! >What does "those of use" imply???? >Somehow, uncensored discussions aren't quite isomorphic to "self-centered >attitude about your illegal habits". (Long-winded sob stories about his tenure at AT&T deleted.) >Somehow, I DON'T find discussion of AT&T's notion of computer systems, >policy, ethics, etc. and alt.drugs all that incongruous... It fries my >blood, however to see some jerk post over here in alt.drugs telling >people who share an interest in thinking for themselves, what to do. Paco, my boy, you still don't get it, do you? Those poor abused gray cells of yours having trouble stringing together the required synapses? 8^) All right, see if you can follow this... The newsgroup "comp.sys.att" is not a house organ for AT&T; it is just another newsgroup for those of us who happen to own AT&T computers. Paco, AT&T may be a totalitarian sweatshop to work for (I don't know), but that's not the concern of the majority of the readers of this newsgroup, who do not and never have worked for AT&T. Many of the readers of this group, like myself, own an AT&T UNIX-PC simply because it was the _cheapest_ way to get a _real_ UNIX machine for our personal use. We're just here, along with lots of other commercial and institutional users of these and other AT&T machines, to exchange notes and experiences with one another. We don't care about AT&T (they've abandoned meaningful support of the UNIX-PC), nor we do have any interest whatsoever in which newsgroups AT&T chooses to propagate internally. Please don't make all of us suffer because of an unrelated action taken by the manufacturer of our computers over which we have no control. There, I managed to ask nicely. Whew. By the way, Paco, et al, the spirit of the Bill of the Rights is that your rights are only limited when you interfere with the rights of others. Trust me, Paco, cross-posting to comp.sys.att to make all of innocents suffer for the wrong(s) of another is not in that spirit. -- Computer Fenestrations Bob Breum Post Office Box 151 {uiucuxc|hoptoad|petsd|ucf-cs}!peora!cmpfen!bob Lake Monroe, FL 32747 USA +1 407 322-3222 "C is the new BASIC"
jlg@odicon.UUCP (John L. Grzesiak) (08/27/89)
In article <2343@devsys.oakhill.UUCP>, paco@oakhill.UUCP (Paco) writes: > In article <307@cbnewsj.ATT.COM> dwex@mtgzx.ATT.COM (d.e.wexelblat) writes: > >In article <4215@udccvax1.acs.udel.EDU> tom@vax1.acs.udel.EDU (tom) writes: > >> alt.drugs is not dying. it is merely being censored by a small group of > >> narrow-minded fools at at&t. it will probably lose some connectivity. > > > >What you will most likely accomplish, you narrow-minded fools, is to lose > >access to comp.sys.att for those of us that want to read it. Your (plural) > >self-centered attitude about your illegal habits is now jeopardizing a > >very useful technical group in addition to your (IMHO) worthless group. > >GET OUT OF COMP.SYS.ATT!!! Followups to alt.drugs, and flames via mail. > >Stop cluttering this group. We have enough of our own clutter! > > > > I am not one to tell anyone what to do or where to do it, but I will tell you and everyone else of my experience. I was one who indulged in illegal drugs for many years and got the worst end of it. IMHO alt.drugs is not a worthless group, it is a severely negative and destructivly used group. It is a place for all those who don't know how to live a happy life to educate each other on how to slowly commit suicide through self important and self centered experimentation. The escape of reality , while seemingly attractive is not intelligent. Drugs do not expand conciousness they remove reality from your grasp. I suppose that you could be like me, I never liked to feel anything, much less have someone tell me that I could'nt do something. But when it comes to me (or you) destroying ourselves through drugs, I would at least allow those around us who don't want to be influenced by childish attitudes to protect themselves. I wish I could tell you how many (paid) company hours I was completely useless and very dangerous because of what I was doing in my personal life. My attitude was completely cavalier, it was like the center of the universe was under my feet at all times, that I could endanger anyone I chose to do what I wanted. This was immature and very unrealistic of me. One in every twelve people in this country has the disease of addiction, while not all those who use drugs have this disease, a unhealthy proportion do have it. It manifests itself in self-destructiveness as well as disregard for anyone else, as well as complete denial of it's existance inside ones body. I believe that AT&T as well as any other company has the right, as well as the personell who choose not to use, to a safe, happy productive environment. Most 'normal' people derive pleasure from a job well done, not from what particular chemical they happen to be experiencing at the time. Since I am what you seem to be, I would stop trying to throw garbage at people and rant childishly about not being allowed to spew whatever destructive nonsense you want onto everyones CRT. The first ammendment was designed to guarantee the truth, not the proliferation of all cultures. Also I believe people have the right to their own privacy. You have publicly voilated several persons private lives with your neurotic outrage. Accept the right of people to live their lives in peace and happiness and if you so choose to self indulge, resign yourself to do so in silence (So as not to encourage others to make your mistakes along with you). NOTE *** My apologies to the readers of comp.sys.att. It is my wish that all this disappears and we go back to technical as usual. I will however, accept the responsibilty for my remarks. Only e-mail please. Please forgive my use of bandwidth. +-------------------------+---------------------------------+ + John L Grzesiak | "No cute signature submitted + + 47 Spring Street | (Nobody reads + + Wallingford Ct 06492 | these things anyway!)" + + !yale!spock!odicon!jlg | Omega Dynamics - Wallingford Ct + +-------------------------+---------------------------------+
forsythe@convex.com (Charles Forsythe) (08/28/89)
jlg@odicon.UUCP (John L. Grzesiak) writes: > [I used to be an idiot because:] > [I went to work wasted] > [I hated reality] > [I was addicted] > [I have no concept of what the first amendment is really for] > [I am incapable of hitting the 'n' key or building a kill file] Thank you for your candor. > I am not one to tell anyone what to do or where to do it, >but I will tell you and everyone else of my experience. I was one >who indulged in illegal drugs for many years and got the worst end >of it. IMHO alt.drugs is not a worthless group, it is a severely >negative and destructively used group. It is a place for all those >who don't know how to live a happy life to educate each other on >how to slowly commit suicide through self important and self >centered experimentation. I notice you neglected to cross-post this to rec.skydiving, rec.scuba, rec.guns and all the other groups that explicitly, rather than implicitly, encourage people to do dangerous, life threatening things for thrills. You know, people like you could do a great service in this group by offering sincere testimonials about the pitfalls of drug use, but your posting only showed two things: (1) you think drugs are evil (2) mainly because you (used to?) have major problems. Next time try alt.ineedtherapybadly. -Charles
szirin@cbnewsm.ATT.COM (seth.zirin) (08/28/89)
In article <1603@convex.UUCP> forsythe@convex.com (Charles Forsythe) writes: >I notice you neglected to cross-post this to rec.skydiving, rec.scuba, rec.guns >and all the other groups that explicitly, rather than implicitly, encourage >people to do dangerous, life threatening things for thrills. You know, There is nothing life threatening about the recreational use of firearms. Equating the use of guns to skydiving or to the illicit use of drugs is foolish and shows how precious little you know about guns. I wish anti-gun load mouths would invest the effort to learn something about a topic before shooting their mouths off.
random@cbnewse.ATT.COM (Random @ rebmA) (08/29/89)
>>how to slowly commit suicide through self important and self
I'm still looking for a human who has figured out how NOT to
slowly commit suicide. Perhaps Lazarus is a lurker?
Random
wsd@cs.brown.edu (Wm. Scott `Spot' Draves) (08/29/89)
In article <3329@cbnewsm.ATT.COM> szirin@cbnewsm.ATT.COM (seth.zirin) writes: In article <1603@convex.UUCP> forsythe@convex.com (Charles Forsythe) writes: >I notice you neglected to cross-post this to rec.skydiving, rec.scuba, rec.guns >and all the other groups that explicitly, rather than implicitly, encourage >people to do dangerous, life threatening things for thrills. You know, There is nothing life threatening about the recreational use of firearms. Equating the use of guns to skydiving or to the illicit use of drugs is foolish and shows how precious little you know about guns. There is nothing life threatening about the recreational use of drugs either. Firearms, just like drugs, can be misused, increasing the risk of injury/death. I think this was Charles' point. - - - - - - - - - - Scott Draves | Space... The Final Frontier wsd@cs.brown.edu | uunet!brunix!wsd wsd@browncs.bitnet Box 2555 Brown U Prov RI 02912
forsythe@convex.com (Charles Forsythe) (08/29/89)
szirin@cbnewsm.ATT.COM (seth.zirin) writes: >There is nothing life threatening about the recreational use of firearms. >Equating the use of guns to skydiving or to the illicit use of drugs is >foolish and shows how precious little you know about guns. > >I wish anti-gun load mouths would invest the effort to learn something about >a topic before shooting their mouths off. Shut up, dickhead. I happen to enjoy pistol shooting. I haven't done it for a few years -- but I'm sure I will find myself out on a firing range sometime in the future. The point I was trying to make is that recreational use of guns can DAMN well be life threatening without information on how to use a firearm. If you don't realize that, then you have no right to be high and mighty about the subject. "Guns are dangerous" is not a "loud-mouth" anti-gun slogan it's the naked truth. You are right though, doing drugs or going skydiving do not have the same kind of dangers as using guns -- a gun accident is more likely to injure someone else. Back to the subject, Seth: knowing that guns can be life-threatening, do you think we should repeal the 2nd amendment and take all the guns away? I mean, people are always complaining about the drug wars -- why not get rid of the guns instead of the drugs (or both?). In other words, if something is dangerous and destructive when used IMPROPERLY, should it be banned? Think carefully, this is a trick question! -Charles forsythe@convex.com "Drugs don't kill people, people kill people"
tiffany@lbl-csam.arpa (brian tiffany) (08/29/89)
In article <38@odicon.UUCP> jlg@odicon.UUCP (John L. Grzesiak) writes: > I am not one to tell anyone what to do or where to do it, but I bet you're gonna, right? >tell me that I could'nt do something. But when it comes to me >(or you) destroying ourselves through drugs, I would at least >allow those around us who don't want to be influenced by >childish attitudes to protect themselves. It's easy to "protect" yourself - DON'T READ THE F!$%%$CKING NEWSGROUP. Unless of course you mean that YOU get to decide that what WE consenting adults talk about between ourselves must be silenced. >productive environment. Most 'normal' people derive pleasure from >a job well done, not from what particular chemical they happen to >be experiencing at the time. So YOU get to decide who's normal. > . . . The first ammendment was designed to >guarantee the truth, not the proliferation of all cultures. Also HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. Well, at least you didn't tell us what to do or where to (not) do it. :-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | Brian Tiffany tiffany@csam.lbl.gov | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
aubrey@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US (Aubrey McIntosh) (08/29/89)
In article <3704@helios.ee.lbl.gov> tiffany@lbl-csam.arpa (brian tiffany) writes: >It's easy to "protect" yourself - DON'T READ THE F!$%%$CKING NEWSGROUP. >Unless of course you mean that YOU get to decide that what WE consenting >adults talk about between ourselves must be silenced. Some time ago, the newsgroup Comp.lang.Modula2 was filled with cross postings about a contest and OOPS languages. I didn't know about kill files until then, but I set one up to kill that subject name. Unfortunately, I don't know where the kill file lives on my system. I didn't object to the subject, but it did intrude on my morning, and it will until I kill the kill file. No flames about knowing the system, please. I now submit these thoughts. a) y'all in alt.drugs, please remove the 'comp.sys.att' from the newsgroup circulation line. This may extinguish many flames. b) offended readers in comp.sys.att could send MAIL to each poster who seems to have blindly crossposted. Those who don't see how an innocent posting could possibly be intrusive ... -- Aubrey McIntosh Freelance using Modula-2 1502 Devon circle Real time, embedded, instruments. Austin, TX 78723 Enquiries welcome 1-(512)-452-1540 aubrey%rpp386.Cactus.org@cs.utexas.edu