bin@rhesus.primate.wisc.edu (Brain in Neutral) (05/04/88)
> Of course, I am happy that I have now been informed that Digital now regards > Ultrix as an equal partner with VMS. In fact, my local service engineer is > going to go to an Ultrix school in a few weeks. Maybe when he gets back > he'll know how to log onto my machine. What I don't understand, is why Ken > Olsen hasn't been informed of this new corporate policy. (Or if he has, why > he insists on referring to Unix as snake oil.) I'm happy, too. But my understanding of what Olsen said was not that Unix itself is snake oil (he has on other occasions made mention of the equal support as a Good Thing now offered by DEC), but that all the noise about standardization is snake oil. Perhaps that is understandable given the debacle with the Pentagon and POSIX, with DEC the loser. Sour grapes?
avolio@decuac.dec.com (Frederick M. Avolio) (05/17/88)
Someone in Ultrix Product Management asked me to submit this for him. The rest of this is the submission. Fred ----- What Ken Olsen REALLY said in the article was that the way that people market UNIX based systems as the cure-all for everything was like snake-oil salesmen selling "cure-alls" to people who really needed a doctor. Any one who has been around most current versions of UNIX operating systems knows that at this stage in its development the UNIX OS lacks things that are necessary in various markets. It is not to say that UNIX operating systems will never have them, but that the product as a commercial operating system has to mature. Digital has always been active on standards committees, and in implementing these standards as they evolve. Sometimes Digital has needed a solution before the standard is ready, therefore we invent an "internal standard" until the formal standard is of product quality. Sometimes we use defacto standards as a place holder until better systems emerge. Digital has put as much (or more) effort into promoting the POSIX standard as anyone. This would be an odd thing if our chief officer was "against standards". As to Digital supporting ULTRIX, I recently went to an internal meeting of top-level Digital Executives where the top three speakers (Ken Olsen, and two senior V.P.s) said in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that we have: One Company, One Architecture and TWO Operating Systems VMS and ULTRIX. These operating systems will be sold on an EQUAL basis (Ken's OWN WORDS to these top-level Digital executives). Yes, it is a large company, and yes, there are still pockets of resistance. In today's Digital, however, you [meaning Digital employees] had better keep those thoughts of resistance to yourself. Jon Hall ULTRIX Worksystems Product Management
stokes@udiego.UUCP (05/26/88)
> Someone in Ultrix Product Management asked me to submit this for him. > The rest of this is the submission. Fred > ------ > ... > > Digital has put as much (or more) effort into promoting the POSIX standard > as anyone. This would be an odd thing if our chief officer was "against > standards". Promoting is one thing, implementation is another. I think the badly botched BSD 4.3 feature in the current release is an example of just how much Digital stands behing `standards'. Ultrix has too many things that just aren't there and when you SPR/request/bitch to have it fixed -- you often get a cold shoulder. With my VMS systems, at most I have to make two calls to two hotlines to get an answer -- Ultrix takes more time to track down the answers. Call Merrimack and ask to talk to the people in Ultrix software distribution if you do not believe me! > As to Digital supporting ULTRIX, I recently went to an internal meeting of > top-level Digital Executives where the top three speakers (Ken Olsen, and two > senior V.P.s) said in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that we have: > > One Company, One Architecture and TWO Operating Systems > > VMS and ULTRIX. These operating systems will be sold on an EQUAL basis > (Ken's OWN WORDS to these top-level Digital executives). Yes, it is a large > company, and yes, there are still pockets of resistance. In today's Digital, > however, you [meaning Digital employees] had better keep those thoughts of > resistance to yourself. > Tell that to our salesman (and previous salepersons)! Everytime I call about VMS products, he can find price quotes, etc. When I call about Ultrix he gets lost! Or if I mention I want an X processor to use UNIX, he had to check with district management to get the offical price. And WHY IN HELL do I have to BUY a VMS licenese for my VAXstation-2000 that runs Ultrix???? I'm sorry, I like DEC hardware but I think Ultrix (and UNIX) is treated by DEC as a BASTARD layered product. I talked to a hardware V.P. at the last DECUS in Anaheim and he implied that many DEC upper managemnet people look at UNIX people like those people who still run TOPS-10, TOPS-20, and RSX -> a pain that they wish would go away! Prediction: VMS 5.0 and VMS 5.1 will do more to convert VMS systems to UNIX than any other single even in the 1980s! --- David Stokes "I started looking out for #1, Academic Computing Department and I step in #2!" -- Dangerfield University of San Diego (619) 260-4810 or {ucsd|ucsdhub}!udiego!stokes