[comp.unix.ultrix] preference for alternate DEC keyboard

reid@decwrl.dec.com (Brian Reid) (07/15/89)

Many of you are familiar with the DEC standard keyboard, the LK201. I've
never liked it very much, but I use it because I have no other choice.

The people in DEC who design keyboards are in a pretty receptive mood right
now, and there is a chance that if there is a clear consensus for what a DEC
Ultrix/Xwindows keyboard ought to look like, that it could get built and be
made available to people who don't like the current keyboard. Mind you that
this isn't a promise--I'm not a DEC product planner or anything, just an
in-house user--but I think I could get the keyboard designers to listen to me
if I had enough consensus from the net about what people like or want.

Here are three possibilities. If you think that one of them might please you,
could you please send me some mail saying which one, and what is good about
it? If you have specific comments, I wouldn't mind hearing those, too. Minor
suggested changes are OK, too.

The funny stuff in the top left of the keyboard charts has to do with
European characters. Ignore it unless you're a European character.

		Brian Reid
		DEC Western Research
		Reid@decwrl.dec.com
		decwrl!reid



Proposal A:    (16.3"x7.5")

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|              o   o                                                                   |
|             [O]  A                                                                   |
|                                                                                      |
|  ---------------------  ---------------------  -----------------  -----------------  |
|  |F1 |F2 |F3 |F4 |F5 |  |F6 |F7 |F8 |F9 |F10|  |F11|F12|F13|F14|  | ^ | | |<- | ->|  |
|  |   |   |   |   |   |  |   |   |   |   |   |  |   |   |   |   |  | | | V |   |   |  |
|  ---------------------  ---------------------  -----------------  -----------------  |
|                                                                                      |
|                                                                                      |
|     -----------------------------------------------------------   -----------------  |
|     |ESC|!  |@  |# #|$  |%  |^  |&  |*  |(  |)  |_  |+  | <X] |   |PF1|PF2|PF3|PF4|  |
|     |   |1  |2  |3  |4  |5  |6  |7  |8  |9  |0  |-  |=  |     |   |   |   |   |   |  |
|     ------------------------------------------------------------  -----------------  |
|     | Tab |Q  |W  |E  |R  |T  |Y  |U  |I  |O  |P  |{  |}  | Ret|  |7  |8  |9  |-  |  |
|     |     |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |[  |]  |    |  |   |   |   |   |  |
|  ----------------------------------------------------------|   |  -----------------  |
|  |Lo-|Ctrl |A  |S  |D  |F  |G  |H  |J  |K  |L  |:  |"  ||  |   |  |5  |6  |7  |,  |  |
|  | ck|     |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |;  |'  |\  |   |  |   |   |   |   |  |
|  ---------------------------------------------------------------  -----------------  |
|  | Shift |~  |Z  |X  |C  |V  |B  |N  |M  |<  |>  |?  | Shift |    |1  |2  |3  |En-|  |
|  |       |`  |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |,  |.  |/  |       |    |   |   |   |ter|  |
|  -------------------------------------------------------------    ------------|   |  |
|       |Com- |Alt  | |     <space bar>       | |Alt  |Com- |       |0      |.  |   |  |
|       | pose|     | |                       | |     | pose|       |       |   |   |  |
|       ------------- ------------------------- -------------       -----------------  |
|                                                                                      |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+




Proposal  B:    (15.7"x7.5")

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|              o   o                                                               |
|             [O]  A                                                               |
|                                                                                  |
|  ---------------------  ---------------------  -----------------  -------------  |
|  |F1 |F2 |F3 |F4 |F5 |  |F6 |F7 |F8 |F9 |F10|  |F11|F12|F13|F14|  |He-|  Do   |  |
|  |   |   |   |   |   |  |   |   |   |   |   |  |   |   |   |   |  | lp|       |  |
|  ---------------------  ---------------------  -----------------  -------------  |
|                                                                                  |
|                                                                                  |
|     -----------------------------------------------------------   -------------  |
|     |ESC|!  |@  |# #|$  |%  |^  |&  |*  |(  |)  |_  |+  | <X] |   |Fin|Ins|Rem|  |
|     |   |1  |2  |3  |4  |5  |6  |7  |8  |9  |0  |-  |=  |     |   |   |   |   |  |
|     ------------------------------------------------------------  -------------  |
|     | Tab |Q  |W  |E  |R  |T  |Y  |U  |I  |O  |P  |{  |}  | Ret|  |Sel|Pre|Nex|  |
|     |     |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |[  |]  |    |  |   |   |   |  |
|  ----------------------------------------------------------|   |  -------------  |
|  |Lo-|Ctrl |A  |S  |D  |F  |G  |H  |J  |K  |L  |:  |"  ||  |   |      | ^ |      |
|  | ck|     |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |;  |'  |\  |   |      | | |      |
|  ---------------------------------------------------------------  -------------  |
|  | Shift |~  |Z  |X  |C  |V  |B  |N  |M  |<  |>  |?  | Shift |    |<- | | | ->|  |
|  |       |`  |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |,  |.  |/  |       |    |   | V |   |  |
|  -------------------------------------------------------------    -------------  |
|       |Com- |Alt  | |     <space bar>       | |Alt  |Com- |                      |
|       | pose|     | |                       | |     | pose|                      |
|       ------------- ------------------------- -------------                      |
|                                                                                  |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------+



Proposal  C:    (13"x7.5")

+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
|              o   o                                                |
|             [O]  A                                                |
|                                                                   |
|  ---------------------  ---------------------  -----------------  |
|  |F1 |F2 |F3 |F4 |F5 |  |F6 |F7 |F8 |F9 |F10|  | ^ | | |<- | ->|  |
|  |   |   |   |   |   |  |   |   |   |   |   |  | | | V |   |   |  |
|  ---------------------  ---------------------  -----------------  |
|                                                                   |
|                                                                   |
|     -----------------------------------------------------------   |
|     |ESC|!  |@  |# #|$  |%  |^  |&  |*  |(  |)  |_  |+  | <X] |   |
|     |   |1  |2  |3  |4  |5  |6  |7  |8  |9  |0  |-  |=  |     |   |
|     ------------------------------------------------------------  |
|     | Tab |Q  |W  |E  |R  |T  |Y  |U  |I  |O  |P  |{  |}  | Ret|  |
|     |     |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |[  |]  |    |  |
|  ----------------------------------------------------------|   |  |
|  |Lo-|Ctrl |A  |S  |D  |F  |G  |H  |J  |K  |L  |:  |"  ||  |   |  |
|  | ck|     |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |;  |'  |\  |   |  |
|  ---------------------------------------------------------------  |
|  | Shift |~  |Z  |X  |C  |V  |B  |N  |M  |<  |>  |?  | Shift |    |
|  |       |`  |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |,  |.  |/  |       |    |
|  -------------------------------------------------------------    |
|       |Com- |Alt  | |     <space bar>       | |Alt  |Com- |       |
|       | pose|     | |                       | |     | pose|       |
|       ------------- ------------------------- -------------       |
|                                                                   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

carson@tron.UUCP (Dana Carson) (07/20/89)

In article <144@jove.dec.com> reid@decwrl.dec.com (Brian Reid) writes:
>
>Many of you are familiar with the DEC standard keyboard, the LK201. I've
>never liked it very much, but I use it because I have no other choice.
>
>The people in DEC who design keyboards are in a pretty receptive mood right
>now, and there is a chance that if there is a clear consensus for what a DEC
>Ultrix/Xwindows keyboard ought to look like, that it could get built and be
>made available to people who don't like the current keyboard. Mind you that
>
>The funny stuff in the top left of the keyboard charts has to do with
>European characters. Ignore it unless you're a European character.
>
>		Brian Reid
>		DEC Western Research
>		Reid@decwrl.dec.com
>		decwrl!reid
>
>
>
>Proposal A:    (16.3"x7.5")
>
>+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>|              o   o                                                                   |
>|             [O]  A                                                                   |
>|                                                                                      |
>|  ---------------------  ---------------------  -----------------  -----------------  |
>|  |F1 |F2 |F3 |F4 |F5 |  |F6 |F7 |F8 |F9 |F10|  |F11|F12|F13|F14|  | ^ | | |<- | ->|  |
>|  |   |   |   |   |   |  |   |   |   |   |   |  |   |   |   |   |  | | | V |   |   |  |
>|  ---------------------  ---------------------  -----------------  -----------------  |
>|                                                                                      |
>|                                                                                      |
>|     -----------------------------------------------------------   -----------------  |
>|     |ESC|!  |@  |# #|$  |%  |^  |&  |*  |(  |)  |_  |+  | <X] |   |PF1|PF2|PF3|PF4|  |
>|     |   |1  |2  |3  |4  |5  |6  |7  |8  |9  |0  |-  |=  |     |   |   |   |   |   |  |
>|     ------------------------------------------------------------  -----------------  |
>|     | Tab |Q  |W  |E  |R  |T  |Y  |U  |I  |O  |P  |{  |}  | Ret|  |7  |8  |9  |-  |  |
>|     |     |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |[  |]  |    |  |   |   |   |   |  |
>|  ----------------------------------------------------------|   |  -----------------  |
>|  |Lo-|Ctrl |A  |S  |D  |F  |G  |H  |J  |K  |L  |:  |"  ||  |   |  |5  |6  |7  |,  |  |
>|  | ck|     |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |;  |'  |\  |   |  |   |   |   |   |  |
>|  ---------------------------------------------------------------  -----------------  |
>|  | Shift |~  |Z  |X  |C  |V  |B  |N  |M  |<  |>  |?  | Shift |    |1  |2  |3  |En-|  |
>|  |       |`  |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |,  |.  |/  |       |    |   |   |   |ter|  |
>|  -------------------------------------------------------------    ------------|   |  |
>|       |Com- |Alt  | |     <space bar>       | |Alt  |Com- |       |0      |.  |   |  |
>|       | pose|     | |                       | |     | pose|       |       |   |   |  |
>|       ------------- ------------------------- -------------       -----------------  |
>|                                                                                      |
>+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
>
>
>


Date: Wed, 19 Jul 89 12:29:05 edt
From: plaza::michael

     Please forward for me.

     Of the three sample keyboards, only Proposal A would be tolerable, 
since B and C neglect to provide the numeric keypad to which I have 
already become accustomed.
     My longest standing gripes about keyboard designers (and their 
designs) are the arrows and the apparent failure to appreciate how 
painful it is for any key to be moved from where it was first found.
     The four cursor keys labeled with arrows should be arranged around 
a central point so that the key's position relative to that point 
corresponds to the way that key will move the cursor:

  -------------
      | ^ |    
      | | |    
  -------------
  |<- |   | ->|
  |   |   |   |
  -------------
      | | |
      | V |
  -------------

If you insist on special keys labeled "Find", "Do", etc., put them in 
the five holes this arrangement leaves.  I think if there's a "Home" 
key, it belongs in the center of this arrangement, even though "Home" 
doesn't move the cursor to the center of the screen.

     On random key relocation:  once I've learned where a key is, 
distance from the standard keypad is almost as important as direction.  
Every time you squeeze another key inboard of a key I've learned, like 
Return or Control, you increase the frequency with which I hit the wrong 
key and reduce my ability to type without staring at the keyboard.  Keep 
the "\"/"|" key outboard of the Return key.  Keep the Control key 
outboard of the CapLock key.  Please don't move the numeric keypad 
further from the standard keypad to make room for new keys.

     I'd like to see a gap between the Compose/Alt keys and the Shift 
keys.  I'd like to be able to Shift case momentarily in either CapLock 
state (as opposed to being able to force upper case with the Shift key, 
but not being able to temporarily override CapLock to produce a lower 
case letter).

     I would like explicit Backspace, Linefeed, and NoScroll keys, with 
Backspace in the upper right corner of the standard keypad and Linefeed 
and NoScroll in the lower right corner (NoScroll should be outermost to 
make it easier to pound starting with my hands in my pockets).  Don't 
change the Return to one-key-high, no matter how wide, to accommodate 
this -- I need a big target.

--
Dana Carson
Westinghouse Electronic Systems Group  Mail Stop 1615
UUCP:carson@tron.UUCP 
     ...!netsys!tron!carson
AT&T: (301) 765-3513
WIN: 285-3513