mcb@LLL-TIS-B.ARPA (Michael C. Berch) (07/28/85)
> Commodore's support has traditionally been cruddy. They have a nasty habit > of running support through their dealers, making their dealers cover > all warrantee jobs whether purchased at that stor or not, making the > dealer cover two way shipping, and selling the same products to > Major toy stores such that the big stores can price them lower than the > dealer cost. I was once a Commodore dealer, I know. If that's cruddy support, let's have more of it. DAMN STRAIGHT a dealer ought to cover warranty jobs for units not sold by them. There's nothing more discouraging than having bought something out of state, by mail order, or simply at a dealer you don't care to go back to, and have the second dealer give you a hard time about a warranty repair because he/she didn't sell it to you. After all, it's the dealer's use of the Commodore name and logo that gets people into the store in the first place. In return for that essentially free advertising, the dealer had better be pretty decent to his manufacturer's customers. As far as major toy stores and so forth -- this is what's known as a market economy. Certainly firms that buy Quantity 10,000 are entitled to a better price than those who buy Quantity 100? This gives the buyer an option -- buy at a full-service dealer at a higher price and get good support, advice, help with installation and training, or buy at a major discounter and get a low price but nothing else. That's the way the industry works, and if you don't like it, I suggest another line of business, like liquor sales in a fair-trade state. Michael C. Berch mcb@lll-tis-b.ARPA {akgua,allegra,cbosgd,decwrl,dual,ihnp4,sun}!idi!styx!mcb
jss@sjuvax.UUCP (J. Shapiro) (07/29/85)
> > Commodore's support has traditionally been cruddy. They have a nasty habit > > of running support through their dealers, making their dealers cover > > all warrantee jobs whether purchased at that stor or not, making the > > dealer cover two way shipping, and selling the same products to > > Major toy stores such that the big stores can price them lower than the > > dealer cost. I was once a Commodore dealer, I know. > > If that's cruddy support, let's have more of it. DAMN STRAIGHT a > dealer ought to cover warranty jobs for units not sold by them. > As far as major toy stores and so forth -- This gives the > buyer an option -- buy at a full-service dealer at a higher price > and get good support, advice, help with installation and training, or > buy at a major discounter and get a low price but nothing else. That's > the way the industry works, and if you don't like it, I suggest > another line of business, like liquor sales in a fair-trade state. > > Michael C. Berch > mcb@lll-tis-b.ARPA > {akgua,allegra,cbosgd,decwrl,dual,ihnp4,sun}!idi!styx!mcb Mike, that is nice in theory, but for three facts: 1) All commodore dealers were obliged to support the toy store warrantees at a high cost to themselves. Their shipping expenses wer e nontrivial, and their repair staffs were badly under-reimbursed by Commodore. 2) The toy store people were selling well below dealer cost. Thus, people would go to the toy stores knowing they could get support from the dealer. 3) The C64's had (and still have) a phenominally high breakdown rate within the warranty period. The net result of this is that the dealers lost a lot of money, and gradually the C64 dropped from the dealer shelves. The toy stores were saying "Take your warranty jobvs to the local dealer - He'll fix it." This was in direct violation of their agreement with Commodore, but it went ignored due to the volume. It is certainly the case that vlolume purchasers are entitled to their discounts, but they are not entitled to foist their problems off as someone else's responsibility. Ultimately the choice became academic. Dealers dropped Commodore because they couldn't afford the losses and the lack of responsiveness, particularly in the light of the lack of contract enforcement with respect to the toy stores. Jon Shapiro Haverford College
dick@ucsfcca.UUCP (Dick Karpinski) (07/30/85)
In article <222@brl-tgr.ARPA> mcb@LLL-TIS-B.ARPA (Michael C. Berch) writes: > >If that's cruddy support, let's have more of it. DAMN STRAIGHT a >dealer ought to cover warranty jobs for units not sold by them. > ... >As far as major toy stores and so forth -- this is what's known as a >market economy. Certainly firms that buy Quantity 10,000 are entitled >to a better price than those who buy Quantity 100? This gives the >buyer an option -- buy at a full-service dealer at a higher price >and get good support, advice, help with installation and training, or >buy at a major discounter and get a low price but nothing else. That's Huh? The retailer who pays the higher price is supposed to handle the warranty work (at significant cost) for the joker who bought his at lower cost from a discounter? I find it hard to believe that these two thoughts came in the same message. Did the poster forget the first paragraph before writing the second or have I misunderstood? Dick -- Dick Karpinski Manager of Unix Services, UCSF Computer Center UUCP: ...!ucbvax!ucsfcgl!cca.ucsf!dick (415) 666-4529 (12-7) BITNET: dick@ucsfcca Compuserve: 70215,1277 Telemail: RKarpinski USPS: U-76 UCSF, San Francisco, CA 94143
eve@ssc-bee.UUCP (Michael Eve) (08/01/85)
> > As far as major toy stores and so forth -- This gives the > > buyer an option -- buy at a full-service dealer at a higher price > > and get good support, advice, help with installation and training, or > > buy at a major discounter and get a low price but nothing else. That's > > ..., that is nice in theory, but for three facts: > > The net result of this is that the dealers lost a lot of money, and gradually the C64 dropped from the dealer > shelves. The toy stores were saying "Take your warranty jobvs to the local > dealer - He'll fix it." Maybe so out there, but back here the local toy stores gave much better service than the full-service retailer. We had three people in our group buy C-64's at the same time, two from the full-service retailer at $500 a throw and one from Toys'r'Us at $300. All three had problems (so much for the C-64), the Toys'r'Us purchaser took his back and got a new one on the spot. The full-service retailer purchasers took theirs back, and waited, and waited, and waited. Finally, two weeks later, they got them back, but only one was working, so back to the dealer again. Give me Toys'r'Us anytime. If the machine expires beyond the store's return period (which is unlikely since I burn-in my machines right away), I'd sooner mail it to the manufacturer then let the local goons hack at it (I've mailed both a modem and disk drive back to the manufacturer, so slow but at least they were really fixed and cheaply,too). -- Mike Eve Boeing Aerospace, Seattle ...uw-beaver!ssc-vax!ssc-bee!eve
mcb@LLL-TIS-B.ARPA (Michael C. Berch) (08/03/85)
> From: Dick Karpinski <dick%ucsfcca.uucp@BRL.ARPA> > Huh? The retailer who pays the higher price is supposed to handle the > warranty work (at significant cost) for the joker who bought his at > lower cost from a discounter? I find it hard to believe that these > two thoughts came in the same message. Did the poster forget the > first paragraph before writing the second or have I misunderstood? Richard, I think you misunderstood. The dealer "covers" the manufacturer's warranty, but he does not eat the cost of it. War- ranty work is like any other service work, except that the manufacturer is billed instead of the buyer who brings it in. Thus it is is irrelevant where the buyer bought the item, or how much he paid for it. Depending on the manufacturer's policy and the dealership agreement, the dealer gets paid either hourly or >from a standard cost schedule. Since my original posting, it has been pointed out to me that Commodore was notorious for late payment, requiring dealers to pay inappropriate shipping charges, and the like, making it un- pleasant for dealers to handle the volume of warranty repairs generated by the mass-market retailers' sales. But this sounds like a case of breach of the dealership agreement by Commodore, which would have legal remedies. The dealers apparently were not able to make a profit or even break even on Commodore warranty work. This contrasts with several Apple dealers I know that (this was during the heyday of the Apple II/II+) made a substantial profit from doing warranty work for Apple. Michael C. Berch mcb@lll-tis-b.ARPA {akgua,allegra,cbosgd,decwrl,dual,ihnp4,sun}!idi!styx!mcb
cagordon@watnot.UUCP (Chris A. Gordon) (08/04/85)
In article <353@ssc-bee.UUCP> eve@ssc-bee.UUCP (Michael Eve) writes: >> > As far as major toy stores and so forth -- This gives the >> > buyer an option -- buy at a full-service dealer at a higher price >> > and get good support, advice, help with installation and training, or >> > buy at a major discounter and get a low price but nothing else. That's >> >> ..., that is nice in theory, but for three facts: >> >> The net result of this is that the dealers lost a lot of money, and gradually the C64 dropped from the dealer >> shelves. The toy stores were saying "Take your warranty jobvs to the local >> dealer - He'll fix it." - >The full-service retailer purchasers took theirs back, and waited, and waited, >and waited. Finally, two weeks later, they got them back, but only one was >working, so back to the dealer again. Sort of on the same subject, I bought a printer from a Commodore dealer (no, it wasn't a Commodore printer) and had to take it back to be fixed (this was last Saturday). They told me it should be ready by Tuesday or Wednesday. Nope, it's still not ready. They said they'd call me when it's ready. I just hope I get it back before next Saturday - I've got to leave then! -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ... from the many keyboards of Chris Gordon In real life: UUCP : {decvax|utzoo|ihnp4|allegra|clyde}!watmath!watnot!cagordon CSNET : cagordon%watnot@waterloo.csnet ARPA : cagordon%watnot%waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa "I have this theory that for every man there is a woman; for every woman there is a man. So??? Where is she???" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jans@mako.UUCP (Jan Steinman) (08/05/85)
In article <391@ucsfcca.UUCP> dick@ucsfcca.UUCP (Dick Karpinski) writes: >In article <222@brl-tgr.ARPA> mcb@LLL-TIS-B.ARPA (Michael C. Berch) writes: >> >>DAMN STRAIGHT a dealer ought to cover warranty jobs for units not sold by >>them. > >Huh? The retailer who pays the higher price is supposed to handle the >warranty work (at significant cost) for the joker who bought his at >lower cost from a discounter? I'm not sure this relates to computers, but when I owned a stereo repair shop, I made lots of money on warranty work. Not as much per unit as walk-in work, but the problems were usually much simpler. (How many times did I get $7 from Craig or Teac for replacing a fuse or cleaning a tape head? I would have charged a walk-in a minimum $9, but would have gone over the unit much better.) Plus they often floor-planned (financed) a portion of the parts stock they required I had on hand. I would think an aggressive, business minded shop would welcome warranty work! -- :::::: Jan Steinman Box 1000, MS 61-161 (w)503/685-2843 :::::: :::::: tektronix!tekecs!jans Wilsonville, OR 97070 (h)503/657-7703 ::::::
hes@ecsvax.UUCP (Henry Schaffer) (08/07/85)
> Plus they often floor-planned (financed) a portion of the parts stock they > required I had on hand. To do warranty repairs for major vendors (IBM, Apple) requires a parts inventory (purchased up front) plus sending your service technician(s) to a training school at your expense. The up front cost is substantial. It still should be possible to make money on such service. --henry schaffer