mcguffey@muvms3.bitnet (Michael McGuffey) (09/09/89)
We are in the process of evaluating Digital workstations for use as DECwindows terminals (i.e. use them for the standard DECwindows apps and some minimal local processing, but mostly as Xterminals with DECterms and major applications running on a VAX 11-785/8700/6000-430 VAXcluster (VMS). We've heard that DECstation's, because of the RISC processor, really need a minimum of 16MB for running DECwindows. I'm evaluating a color 16MB DS3100 and am quite pleased with the performance, but what is the performance like on the 8MB version? Even slowing the machine down do DS2100 speed would be acceptable. Anyone using an 8MB 2100 (Color or Mono) that would care to add their thoughts? We have several color VS2000's. Can we swap monitors with a mono DS2100 or DS3100 and get a greyscale 2000 and color 2100/3100? In other words, is the only difference between the mono and color DECstation the monitor or is there some inherent electronics hardware difference? What's involved in a mono to color DECstation upgrade. Any other info or comparisons would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, -- michael ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael McGuffey, Senior Software Applications Analyst Phone: 304/696-3212 University Computer Center FAX: 304/696-3601 Marshall University BITNET: mcguffey@muvms1 Huntington, WV 25755-5320 Internet: mcguffey%muvms3@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
thompson@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Steve Thompson) (09/09/89)
In article <6923@muvms3.bitnet> mcguffey@muvms3.bitnet (Michael McGuffey) writes: >We've heard that DECstation's, because of the RISC processor, really need >a minimum of 16MB for running DECwindows. I'm evaluating a color 16MB DS3100 >and am quite pleased with the performance, but what is the performance like >on the 8MB version? Even slowing the machine down do DS2100 speed would be >acceptable. Anyone using an 8MB 2100 (Color or Mono) that would care to >add their thoughts? > We have three DS3100's that all started off life with 8MB. Two of them now have 12MB, and the third has 16MB. Definitely makes a lot of difference! On the 16MB DS3100, we have a f77 program of about 2000 lines that used to take 5.5 hours to compile when the machine had 8MB (yes, that's right, HOURS). LOTS of disk activity. This program now compiles on both 12MB and 16MB machines in 3.5 minutes. An interesting note here is that the same program compiles on a VS3100 under VMS in 28 seconds. Steve
graham@fuel.dec.com (kris graham) (09/09/89)
In article <8811@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu>, thompson@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Steve Thompson) writes: . This program now > compiles on both 12MB and 16MB machines in 3.5 minutes. An interesting > note here is that the same program compiles on a VS3100 under VMS in > 28 seconds. > Is there a chance that you can let us see the program that you refer to in your note? We have fixed a problem similar to yours before. What you are seeing challenges conventional wisdom ;-) thanx. -- Christopher Graham Digital Equipment Corp Ultrix Resource Center 2 Penn Plaza New York Internet: graham@fuel.dec.com UUCP: ...!decwrl!fuel.dec.com!graham
riley@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Daniel S. Riley) (09/11/89)
In article <6923@muvms3.bitnet> mcguffey@muvms3.bitnet (Michael McGuffey) writes: >We are in the process of evaluating Digital workstations for use as >DECwindows terminals (i.e. use them for the standard DECwindows apps and >some minimal local processing, but mostly as Xterminals with DECterms and >major applications running on a VAX 11-785/8700/6000-430 VAXcluster (VMS). I have a mono 8 Meg DS3100 on my disk, and it does work. It's true that I can tell when mail arrives by the sound the disk makes as it swaps sendmail in, and having more than a few local DECwindows programs active at once tends to result in a lot of swapping, but I haven't found it all that painful. I regularly run programs on our VAX/VMS cluster (8600/6360) along with a few local DECwindows programs, and it works fine. Running remote applications doesn't take much local memory, so memory isn't as critical if you're using a DS3100 primarily as an Xterminal and just running a few local DECwindows programs. We don't have any color DECstations, so I don't know how much worse the story would be with color. In a different article thompson@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (Steve Thompson) writes: >We have three DS3100's that all started off life with 8MB. Two of them >now have 12MB, and the third has 16MB. Definitely makes a lot of >difference! On the 16MB DS3100, we have a f77 program of about 2000 >lines that used to take 5.5 hours to compile when the machine had 8MB >(yes, that's right, HOURS). LOTS of disk activity. This program now >compiles on both 12MB and 16MB machines in 3.5 minutes. An interesting >note here is that the same program compiles on a VS3100 under VMS in >28 seconds. Not really a good comparison for Michael's purposes--doing development work isn't much like using one as an Xterminal. If you're doing development work, extra memory helps, of course. I have compiled some big packages (TeX, X11R3, GNU emacs, MIT Scheme, etc.) on my 8 Meg DS3100, and the machine isn't good for a lot else while it's compiling. The compiles do usually go reasonably quickly--the only exception was web2c, which took forever with "-O" and a few minutes without it. -Dan Riley (riley@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu, cornell!batcomputer!riley) -Wilson Lab, Cornell U.
steve@fnord.umiacs.umd.edu (Steve D. Miller) (09/12/89)
It depends on your pain threshold. I've run DECwindows (well, OK, let's be more accurate: the DEC X11 server with the standard X11 tools) on DECstations 3100 with 8MB memories, and I find it a wee bit slow but still tolerable. Going to 12MB makes a big difference -- big enough that I'm not buying machines with less than 12MB these days. If you've got the money, you should do the same. Punting the DECwindows applications (or using them only as absolutely necessary) and using the standard X11 tools is a big win in terms of memory usage. The xterm binary is only half the size of dxterm, for instance... Caveat: I used to run X11 (off the MIT tape) on a mono Sun-3/60, and without any of the Purdue speedups or using gcc. I considered that OK, too, so I may have a higher pain threshold than most other people! -Steve Spoken: Steve Miller Domain: steve@umiacs.umd.edu UUCP: uunet!mimsy!steve Phone: +1-301-454-1808 USPS: UMIACS, Univ. of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742