rainwatr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Don Rainwater) (12/21/89)
I have a VAX 8650 running Ultrix 3.0. Terminal connections are via DECservers. My port is running at 19.2k, and my "terminal" is a Mac II. The Mac is running ZTerm .85, and I have the rzsz package from 5/89 running on the Ultrix system. I'm able to download (sometimes very large) files from Ultrix without any trouble, but uploads don't even get past the first byte. The error I get is "ZRPOS=0". I have the same problem trying to upload from an IBM/PC-AT compatible running DSZ, so I think we can eliminate the Mac from the list of suspects. Has anyone been able to successfully upload files to an Ultrix (or other Unix) host? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Kermit is just too slow.
garyf@mehlville.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Gary Faulkner) (12/22/89)
In article <80@ucunix.SAN.UC.EDU>, rainwatr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Don Rainwater) writes: > > I have a VAX 8650 running Ultrix 3.0. Terminal connections are > via DECservers. My port is running at 19.2k, and my "terminal" is a Mac II. > The Mac is running ZTerm .85, and I have the rzsz package from 5/89 > running on the Ultrix system. > > I'm able to download (sometimes very large) files from Ultrix > without any trouble, but uploads don't even get past the first byte. > The error I get is "ZRPOS=0". I have the same problem trying to upload > from an IBM/PC-AT compatible running DSZ, so I think we can eliminate > the Mac from the list of suspects. > > Has anyone been able to successfully upload files to an Ultrix > (or other Unix) host? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Kermit is > just too slow. Yep, we have the same problem with our ultrix and our sun hosts using rzsz, again for uploads only. I am taking the liberty of cross posting this response to comp.sources.bugs to attempt to get a dialog/fix going in that area. I don't think anyone has complained (at least not very loudly) about this yet, and hopefully someone has a fix for the problem. Gary Faulkner National Center for Supercomputing Applications - University of Illinois Internet: garyf@mehlville.ncsa.uiuc.edu Disclaimer: I've only stated my opinion, not anyone elses.
barrett@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Dan Barrett) (12/22/89)
In article <80@ucunix.SAN.UC.EDU> rainwatr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Don Rainwater) writes: > I'm able to download (sometimes very large) files from Ultrix >without any trouble, but uploads don't even get past the first byte. >The error I get is "ZRPOS=0". I have the same problem trying to upload >from an IBM/PC-AT compatible running DSZ, so I think we can eliminate >the Mac from the list of suspects. I don't know if this will help, but I had similar trouble sending files from our Ultrix machine to my Amiga. Invoking "sz" on the Ultrix machine with the command: sz -l 1024 filename solved the problem. Dan //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ | Dan Barrett, Department of Computer Science Baltimore, MD 21218 | | INTERNET: barrett@cs.jhu.edu | UUCP: barrett@jhunix.UUCP | | COMPUSERVE: >internet:barrett@cs.jhu.edu | BITNET: barrett@jhuvms.bitnet | \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////
dplatt@coherent.com (Dave Platt) (12/22/89)
In article <1989Dec21.200309.17636@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> garyf@mehlville.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Gary Faulkner) writes: > In article <80@ucunix.SAN.UC.EDU>, rainwatr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Don > Rainwater) writes: > > > I'm able to download (sometimes very large) files from Ultrix > > without any trouble, but uploads don't even get past the first byte. > > The error I get is "ZRPOS=0". I have the same problem trying to upload > > from an IBM/PC-AT compatible running DSZ, so I think we can eliminate > > the Mac from the list of suspects. > > > > Yep, we have the same problem with our ultrix and our sun hosts using > rzsz, again for uploads only. I am taking the liberty of cross posting > this response to comp.sources.bugs to attempt to get a dialog/fix going > in that area. I don't think anyone has complained (at least not very > loudly) about this yet, and hopefully someone has a fix for the problem. The ZMODEM protocols requires that the sender->receiver channel be able to transmit 8-bit-wide data; the receiver->sender backchannel only needs to be 7 bits wide. I suspect that your Ultrix and Sun systems, or perhaps your terminal-servers, are set up so that they expect to see data arriving in 7-bit-plus-parity-of-some-gender, and that they are stripping the parity bit off of the data before passing it on to the receiver (rzsz, in this case). This will entirely confuse a ZMODEM transfer; the packet CRCs will not match, and the receiver will repeatedly ask the sender to retransmit the first packet (ZRPOS=0). Eventually the transfer will choke and abort. ZMODEM also transmits control-characters in its data... both as part of the packet-control sequences, and in the data. It normally "escapes out" a limited set of control-characters... XON and XOFF, and a few others which tend to be "eaten" by network hardware or software. It's possible to tell a ZMODEM sender to escape all control characters... in ZTerm 0.85 this is done in the "ZMODEM Parms..." dialog box. This might help... It is not possible to transmit data using ZMODEM if your sending channel is only 7 bits wide. You may be able to configure your terminal-server so that it will grant you a clean 8-bit-wide input channel... "8 data bits, no parity, 1 stop bit" is the usual incantation in telecom programs. I recall that "tip" hardware could be persuaded to do this, by giving certain commands during the connection sequence; your term'server may have similar capabilities. If you can't arrange for an 8-bit clear input channel, you won't be able to use ZMODEM to upload, and will need to fall back and punt... use MacKermit (or the equivalent). Recent Kermits can use large packets... 1K bytes or so... and can deliver decent throughput. You'll lose some bandwidth because Kermit will be forced to escape all characters whose 8th bit is on... but this is inevitable if you don't have an 8-bit-wide data channel. I've used ZTerm (many versions) to upload data to my Sun systems running rzsz. As long as I go in through a serial-port configured for 8-bit input, everything works fine. I believe that rz attempts to put the tty channel into "raw" mode when it starts receiving. This apparently turns off parity checking and enables 8-bit input. It's possible, I suppose, that this feature isn't effective if you're logged in over a TELNET-style connection from a terminal server. -- Dave Platt VOICE: (415) 493-8805 UUCP: ...!{ames,apple,uunet}!coherent!dplatt DOMAIN: dplatt@coherent.com INTERNET: coherent!dplatt@ames.arpa, ...@uunet.uu.net USNAIL: Coherent Thought Inc. 3350 West Bayshore #205 Palo Alto CA 94303
grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) (12/22/89)
In article <80@ucunix.SAN.UC.EDU> rainwatr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Don Rainwater) writes: > > I have a VAX 8650 running Ultrix 3.0. Terminal connections are > via DECservers. My port is running at 19.2k, and my "terminal" is a Mac II. > The Mac is running ZTerm .85, and I have the rzsz package from 5/89 > running on the Ultrix system. The best answer is YBF (you be f....d). The DECservers, especially the DS200 have only small recieve buffers and will quickly overflow when used with a protocol that tries to send big packets without flow control, especially on a loaded ethernet. Zmodem is like this - it tries to ram several big packets, looking for ack's on the fly and the retrasmit from the first nak or missing ack. If you want to do file transfers, either use some dumb protocol with little packets and per-packet acknowledgement or hook up a direct connect line... notes: 1) it seemed to work a lot better with 2.2 than 3.x. CSC just claims it probably shouldn't work very well anyway. I never did pin down whether this is just 3.x sluggishness or some extraneous factor at our site. 2) in Ultrix 3.1 (but not previous releases) the LAT driver fails to put the server in "PASS ALL" mode when an "stty raw" type call is issued. In this case you have to do this manually at your server port. -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@uunet.uu.net Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
silvert@cs.dal.ca (Bill Silvert) (12/22/89)
In article <42713@improper.coherent.com> dplatt@coherent.com (Dave Platt) writes: >In article <1989Dec21.200309.17636@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> garyf@mehlville.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Gary Faulkner) writes: >> In article <80@ucunix.SAN.UC.EDU>, rainwatr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Don >> Rainwater) writes: >>>> I'm able to download (sometimes very large) files from Ultrix >>> without any trouble, but uploads don't even get past the first byte. >> Yep, we have the same problem with our ultrix and our sun hosts using >> rzsz, again for uploads only. > >The ZMODEM protocols requires that the sender->receiver channel be able >to transmit 8-bit-wide data; the receiver->sender backchannel only >needs to be 7 bits wide. > >If you can't arrange for an 8-bit clear input channel, you won't be able >to use ZMODEM to upload, and will need to fall back and punt... use >MacKermit (or the equivalent). I'm no communications guru, but there are plenty of other options. I also cannot upload with Zmodem (although downloads are OK), but there is no problem with Ymodem (including batch) and Xmodem uploads. The difference between Ymodem and Zmodem is not that great. -- Bill Silvert, Habitat Ecology Division. Bedford Institute of Oceanography, Dartmouth, NS, Canada B2Y 4A2 UUCP: ...!{uunet,watmath}!dalcs!biomel!bill Internet: biomel@cs.dal.CA BITNET: bs%dalcs@dalac.BITNET
jeff@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Jeffrey M White) (12/23/89)
In article <1989Dec21.200309.17636@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> garyf@mehlville.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Gary Faulkner) writes: >In article <80@ucunix.SAN.UC.EDU>, rainwatr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Don >Rainwater) writes: >> >> I have a VAX 8650 running Ultrix 3.0. Terminal connections are >> via DECservers. My port is running at 19.2k, and my "terminal" is a Mac II. >> The Mac is running ZTerm .85, and I have the rzsz package from 5/89 >> running on the Ultrix system. >> >> I'm able to download (sometimes very large) files from Ultrix >> without any trouble, but uploads don't even get past the first byte. >> The error I get is "ZRPOS=0". I have the same problem trying to upload >> from an IBM/PC-AT compatible running DSZ, so I think we can eliminate >> the Mac from the list of suspects. >> >> Has anyone been able to successfully upload files to an Ultrix >> (or other Unix) host? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Kermit is >> just too slow. > >Yep, we have the same problem with our ultrix and our sun hosts using >rzsz, again for uploads only. I am taking the liberty of cross posting >this response to comp.sources.bugs to attempt to get a dialog/fix going >in that area. I don't think anyone has complained (at least not very >loudly) about this yet, and hopefully someone has a fix for the problem. Same problem here. With a connection to a Unix host through an Annex terminal server, xmodem-based file transfers (which include straight xmodem and the MacXmodem derivatives) would be fine for transfer from the host to the PC/Mac, but fail going the other way. The exception is that file transfers when dialing up (which is 1200 baud for me) do work fine in both directions. I never got around to finding how fast a baud rate you could have before it would start to fail again. My suspicion is that xmodem doesn't like the buffering (no matter how slight) that these terminal servers do. Jeff White University of Pennsylvania jeff@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
spencer@eecs.umich.edu (Spencer W. Thomas) (12/23/89)
I have a different problem trying to upload to my Sun 3/60. The serial port on the Sun just can't keep up with continuous 9600 baud input. It chokes after 3 or 4 characters (under Sun OS 4.0.3). You should check that this isn't your problem. (Try turning off the delay and "wait for echo" flags for sending characters from your terminal emulator (Zmodem 0.85), and paste a string (of, say, 20 characters). If the string gets through ok, then that's not your problem. -- =Spencer (spencer@eecs.umich.edu)
wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (David Lesher) (12/23/89)
>The best answer is YBF (you be f....d). The DECservers, especially the DS200 >have only small recieve buffers and will quickly overflow when used with a >protocol that tries to send big packets without flow control, especially on a >loaded ethernet. Same problem here, but not just Zmodem. Brain damaged DECserver/Gandolf combination loses bottom 1/3 of page on long splats of output. I asked, but got circular finger-pointing queue. Oh well, direct works great.... -- A host is a host & from coast to coast...wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu no one will talk to a host that's close..............(305) 255-RTFM Unless the host (that isn't close)......................pob 570-335 is busy, hung or dead....................................33257-0335
moran@tron.UUCP (Harvey R Moran) (12/23/89)
In article <1989Dec21.200309.17636@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> garyf@mehlville.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Gary Faulkner) writes: >In article <80@ucunix.SAN.UC.EDU>, rainwatr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Don >Rainwater) writes: >> I'm able to download (sometimes very large) files from Ultrix >> without any trouble, but uploads don't even get past the first byte. >> The error I get is "ZRPOS=0". I have the same problem trying to upload >> from an IBM/PC-AT compatible running DSZ, so I think we can eliminate >> the Mac from the list of suspects. >> >> Has anyone been able to successfully upload files to an Ultrix >> (or other Unix) host? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Kermit is >> just too slow. > >Yep, we have the same problem with our ultrix and our sun hosts using >rzsz, again for uploads only. I am taking the liberty of cross posting sz/rz works fine here for both upload and download. Points of comparison: zmdm1.43, VAX-750, Ultrix 3.1, DECSERVER, IDX line mux, Vadic modem, 1200 (yeah I know, but that all I've got to work with) <--> Telebit T1000 modem, Microport System V/AT 2.3, 8 Mhz '286 AT-clone, xcomm PD communications package, zmdm1.43 transport. Though I've used it only twice, the same AT up/downloads with a '386 running ISC 2.02, zmdm2.02 and some kind of internal modem, at 2400 baud. In both cases, uucp accounts for most of the traffic, zmodem is used only when file transfer is an afterthought after logging in. Perhaps the baud rate is the problem. Fielding interrupts at 19,200 baud is a tricky business, especially when there are no required ACK's in the protocol to throttle reception rates down. While I have no personal experience, everything I've seen in various newsgroups on the net would lead me to believe that neither VAXen nor Suns are capable of reliable streamed reception at 19,200 and even 9600 is *really* touchy. Of course, in the mentioned case of the VAX 8600, it is getting LAT packets from the DECSERVER rather than interrupt per byte. The machine with the strain is the DECSERVER itself. I have no knowledge about its capability to deal with high baudrate incoming data streams. -- # Harvey Moran moran@tron.UUCP moran@tron.WEC.COM ...!uunet!tron!moran # Westinghouse Electric Corp., Electronic Systems Group, Baltimore, Md.
pel@unhd.UUCP (Paul E. Leclerc) (12/24/89)
>In article <80@ucunix.SAN.UC.EDU>, rainwatr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Don >Rainwater) writes: >> >> I have a VAX 8650 running Ultrix 3.0. Terminal connections are >> via DECservers. My port is running at 19.2k, and my "terminal" is a Mac II. >> The Mac is running ZTerm .85, and I have the rzsz package from 5/89 >> running on the Ultrix system. >> >> I'm able to download (sometimes very large) files from Ultrix >> without any trouble, but uploads don't even get past the first byte. >> The error I get is "ZRPOS=0". I have the same problem trying to upload >> from an IBM/PC-AT compatible running DSZ, so I think we can eliminate >> the Mac from the list of suspects. >> >> Has anyone been able to successfully upload files to an Ultrix >> (or other Unix) host? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Kermit is >> just too slow. Try doing an sz -e file. -e says to escape characters that might be special to things like terminal servers. I don't use Zterm so I don't know if that is possible. It has worked for me when I have to go through ethernet terminal servers. Paul Leclerc =========================================================================== Paul Leclerc, Computer Specialist III |Bitnet: P_LECLERC@UNHH.BITNET University of NH |UUCP: ...uunet!unh!pel =========================================================================== -- =========================================================================== Paul Leclerc, Computer Specialist III |Bitnet: P_LECLERC@UNHH.BITNET University of NH |UUCP: ...uunet!unh!pel