[comp.unix.ultrix] To strip, or not to strip...

morse@quark.mpr.ca (Daryl Morse) (11/21/90)

Several weeks ago, there was a brief discussion on stripping
executables. dxterm was given as an example of an unstripped
executable. Because of the memory greediness of the dx* executables, I
thought I would take try stripping dxterm to see if there were any
noticable differences in performance/memory utilization.

  This is what I found:

1. Size of executable *is* significantly smaller. (BTW, I'm running
   MIPS-based machine.)

	unstripped dxterm - 4423920 bytes
	stripped   dxterm - 2842624 bytes

2. Size of the virtual address space as reported by  ps -u (SZ)

	unstripped dxterm - 3244
	stripped   dxterm - 3244

TSIZE was also unchanged. Am I missing something here? Not being a
Unix guru, I am not sure if there are other VM stats which might
better indicate altered memory utilization. (ie. TRS, RSS, etc.) Are
the savings that result from stripping executables only in disk space?

I would appreciate knowing whether or not strip actually reduces
memory utilization of executables. Please reply by email. If there
appears to be interest in this issue, I will summarize and repost.

Thanks, very much.
--
Daryl Morse                     | Voice : (604) 293-5476
MPR Teltech Ltd. 		| Fax   : (604) 293-5787
8999 Nelson Way, Burnaby, BC    | E-Mail: morse@quark.mpr.ca
Canada, V5A 4B5                 |         quark.mpr.ca!morse@uunet.uu.net

sritacco@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Steve Ritacco) (11/22/90)

I've often asked myself these same questions, and this has brought to mind
one other.  When will Ultrix have shared libraries?  The most trivial
widget based application is bigger than a mega-byte.  I wouldn't mind
getting back some disk space from all those fat executables.

morse@quark.mpr.ca (Daryl Morse) (11/22/90)

Thanks to all who responded to my query about stripping dx* binaries.
The universal response was that stripping would not result in any
reduction in memory utilization, as the symbol tables are not loaded
anyway.

In addition, John Hoffman from Digital <hoffman@decvax.dec.com> was
kind enough to give a very good reason *not* to strip the binaries:

<Several DECwindows executables on the RISC platform are shipped 
<unstripped due to requirements in the condition-handling code
<of the Image Services Libraries that are used by these executables.
<Stripping the executables breaks the ability of these executables
<to gracefully recover from errors encountered in the image routines.

<This requirement and the accompanying extra-large disk usage will be
<remedied in a future release.

<John Hoffman
<Digital Equipment Corporation
<ULTRIX Engineering Group
<Nashua, NH  
<(603) 881-0422
<hoffman@flume.zk3.dec.com OR hoffman@decwrl.dec.com

Thanks again.
--
Daryl Morse                     | Voice : (604) 293-5476
MPR Teltech Ltd. 		| Fax   : (604) 293-5787
8999 Nelson Way, Burnaby, BC    | E-Mail: morse@quark.mpr.ca
Canada, V5A 4B5                 |         quark.mpr.ca!morse@uunet.uu.net

klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee) (11/22/90)

In article <MORSE.90Nov20120758@quark.mpr.ca>, morse@quark.mpr.ca (Daryl Morse) writes:
|>  Are the savings that result from stripping executables only in disk space?

Yes.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee

mjr@hussar.dco.dec.com (Marcus J. Ranum) (11/22/90)

sritacco@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Steve Ritacco) writes:
>I've often asked myself these same questions, and this has brought to mind
>one other.  When will Ultrix have shared libraries?  The most trivial
>widget based application is bigger than a mega-byte.

	[I'm not referring specifically to ULTRIX, here - or any
specific vendor's product. So don't go quoting me out of context :) ]

	The thing *I've* never been able to understand is why people
use such a bloated massive window system in the first place. X-window
and its toolkits has been responsible for making more machines "obsolete"
than any other cause, except possibly "operating system enhancements". :)

	Sure, shared libraries will help make X-windows useable - but
what's puzzled me is how people got the idea such a huge monster was
useable in the first place.

	Most of my non-windows-based programs seem to be around 60K
in size, unless I make a gethostbyname() library call, in which case
it zooms up to around 100K [see "operating system enhancements" above].

mjr.   [an "if it ain't V7, it ain't sh**" kind of guy]
-- 
"When choosing between two evils, give preference to the council of your
tummy over that of your testes. The history of mankind is full of disasters
that could have been averted by a good meal, followed by a nap on the couch."
		-Me, as explained to me by my wife's cat Strummer.

mathisen@dali.cs.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen) (11/22/90)

In article <MORSE.90Nov20120758@quark.mpr.ca> morse@quark.mpr.ca (Daryl Morse) writes:
>1. Size of executable *is* significantly smaller. (BTW, I'm running
>   MIPS-based machine.)
>
>	unstripped dxterm - 3244
>	stripped   dxterm - 3244
>
>TSIZE was also unchanged. Am I missing something here? Not being a




This makes perfect sense...  strip(1) only removes symbol table information
left behind by the compiler and linker.  The stripped executable is in all
other respects indentical to the unstripped one, thus no memory/performance
gain.  Of course, it's much harder to debug w/o the symbol info, but
that's a different problem.

de5@ornl.gov (Dave Sill) (11/26/90)

In article <15530011@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com>, sritacco@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Steve Ritacco) writes:
>When will Ultrix have shared libraries?

When DEC merges OSF/1 and Ultrix, perhaps sometime next year,
according to our local DEC people.

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)
Martin Marietta Energy Systems
Workstation Support

mrs@mx.csun.edu (Mike Stump) (11/27/90)

In article <15530011@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com> sritacco@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Steve Ritacco) writes:
>I've often asked myself these same questions, and this has brought to mind
>one other.  When will Ultrix have shared libraries?  The most trivial
>widget based application is bigger than a mega-byte.  I wouldn't mind
>getting back some disk space from all those fat executables.

My little hello World example program is up over 5 megabytes now...
I wish (really wish) I had shared libraries so that it could drop down to
60k again.

Is DEC working on shared libraries, do they know ``we'' want them, do they
understand the importance of them?
--
If I can get mail to you via a legally registered fully qualified
domain name, you could be on Saturn for all I care.

		-- quote by Bob Sutterfield <bob@MorningStar.Com>