A2DEH@MIT-MC.ARPA (Donald E. Hopkins) (08/14/85)
From the Apple IIe Owner's Manual, page 115: "About Kids and Computers: Most kids are fearless about computers and think nothing of popping the top off of the Apple IIe and rearranging the circuitry just to see what will happen. To discourage these overzealous hackers, there are screw holes on the Apple IIe cover so classroom computers can be bolted shut." I am too disgusted to comment. -Don
kevvy@AMSAA.ARPA (RAMD-SUM) (08/14/85)
>From the Apple IIe Owner's Manual, page 115: > >"About Kids and Computers: Most kids are fearless about computers > and think nothing of popping the top off of the Apple IIe and > rearranging the circuitry just to see what will happen. To discourage > these overzealous hackers, there are screw holes on the Apple IIe > cover so classroom computers can be bolted shut." now how can one expect young electrical engineers to have stories to tell if they can't have the experience of moving the disk controller card around with the power on and watching the tops blow off the PROMs? it's enough to make a hacker cry... kevin%udccvax1@louie
burton.osbunorth@XEROX.ARPA (08/16/85)
You call this 'hacking'?? I'd call it self-protection on the part of the school administrators, and Apple **has** to keep their favor. Phil Burton Xerox Corp.
kevvy@AMSAA.ARPA (RAMD-SUM) (08/16/85)
> You call this 'hacking'?? I'd call it self-protection... [etc, spew]
`Course then again, any kid who's smart enough to know anything about
hardware ( I believe it possible to assume ) would have loosened a
screw or two to "see what makes [something] go." Sure, Apple wants
to be on everyone's good side ( there's money in that ), but let's
face it- if a kid wants to get in there, screws ain't gonna do it. I've
seen restraining plates with padlocks on Apples before, and it's not
a pretty sight. A better idea would be to teach the kids about what's
inside the computer and how to handle it- then restraints aren't neces-
sary. Since such locks and things aren't effective enough ( in the
long run - it slows down, but doesn't completely deter ), knowledge
has to be the key. Who knows- might even spark an interest in EE...
kevin%udccvax1@louie
Ps: Hacking: Learning through unauthorized accessabc@BRL.ARPA (Brint Cooper) (08/16/85)
It depends upon what you mean by "kid." Generally, anyone in high school with enough legitimate curiosity to want to know how the Apple works has probably been into other things already. But I'd surely try to keep the 9-year-olds out of the box. Brint
david@RAND-UNIX.ARPA (David Shlapak) (08/16/85)
Re:
>Ps: Hacking: Learning through unauthorized access
How 'bout:
Hacking: Destruction through unlearned access...
Why all this romanticism about "hacking?" The "old fashioned"
hacker (the one who didn't try to f**k up other people's TRW files
or break into Bank of America's computers, but merely wanted to figure
out what made a machine tick and what it could be made to do) were
typically (although by all means not exclusively) moderately immature,
single-minded, boring individuals (in other words, yes folks, "nerds");
"new-type" hackers are just plain felons. I don't understand what's wrong
with a school trying to protect its investments.
Besides, if nobody tried to keep the kids out of the guts of the
computer, they wouldn't be "hackers" by your definition, would they?
Cheers!
--- daspeter@baylor.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (08/17/85)
> From the Apple IIe Owner's Manual, page 115: > [description of screw holes designed to seal the //e] > > I am too disgusted to comment. > -Don Why? They're not preventing you from hacking on your own machine, just protecting school property. -- Peter da Silva (the mad Australian werewolf) UUCP: ...!shell!neuro1!{hyd-ptd,baylor,datafac}!peter MCI: PDASILVA; CIS: 70216,1076
Burton.osbunorth@XEROX.ARPA (08/19/85)
Kevin, I dunno. My older child, a girl, had an Apple in her kindergarten class. Those kids were active computerniks, the boys mostly. And I know, since these boys are my daugther's playmates, that they are (1) able to open up a system, and two, not yet ready to learn about the difference between logic and memory. Two observations: If a school wants kids to learn, they can buy cheap kits from Intel and others. Second, all these discussions must be q2ualified by the age of the child. Unfortunately, Apple doesn't have different models for different grade levels. Enough on this. Phil Burton, Xerox Corp.
Lear@RU-BLUE.ARPA (eliot lear) (08/19/85)
> Re: > >Ps: Hacking: Learning through unauthorized access > > How 'bout: > > Hacking: Destruction through unlearned access... > > Why all this romanticism about "hacking?" The "old fashioned" > hacker (the one who didn't try to f**k up other people's TRW files > or break into Bank of America's computers, but merely wanted to figure > out what made a machine tick and what it could be made to do) were > typically (although by all means not exclusively) moderately immature, > single-minded, boring individuals (in other words, yes folks, "nerds"); > "new-type" hackers are just plain felons. I don't understand what's wrong > with a school trying to protect its investments. > Besides, if nobody tried to keep the kids out of the guts of the > computer, they wouldn't be "hackers" by your definition, would they? Wrong. A TRUE hacker (not to be confused with the press' definition) is someone that knows how to find the "In"s and "Out"s of software or systems. If you have a problem with a software program or with a system, you should be able to find help when you find a TRUE hacker. An individual that breaks into systems or steals passwords is NOT a hacker - (S)he is a THIEF or a VANDAL. eliot lear [Lear@RU-BLUE.arpa] [{allegra,seismo,inhp4}!topaz!lear}] -------
shawn@mit-eddie.UUCP (Shawn McKay) (08/20/85)
hacking: a term widly misused all over the world.
peter@baylor.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (08/20/85)
> a pretty sight. A better idea would be to teach the kids about what's > inside the computer and how to handle it- then restraints aren't neces- > sary. Since such locks and things aren't effective enough ( in the They're still going to do weird things even if you tell them how to handle it. I know I used to. > Ps: Hacking: Learning through unauthorized access Oh Lauren! Any comment on this? -- Peter (Made in Australia) da Silva UUCP: ...!shell!neuro1!{hyd-ptd,baylor,datafac}!peter MCI: PDASILVA; CIS: 70216,1076
glen@intelca.UUCP (Glen Shires) (08/22/85)
> From the Apple IIe Owner's Manual, page 115: > > "About Kids and Computers: Most kids are fearless about computers > and think nothing of popping the top off of the Apple IIe and > rearranging the circuitry just to see what will happen. To discourage > these overzealous hackers, there are screw holes on the Apple IIe > cover so classroom computers can be bolted shut." > > I am too disgusted to comment. > -Don Meanwhile... most adults are fearful of computers and afraid that If they press the wrong key, the machine will break. -- ^ ^ Glen Shires, Intel, Santa Clara, Ca. O O Usenet: {ucbvax!amd,pur-ee,hplabs}!intelca!glen > ARPA: "amd!intelca!glen"@BERKELEY \-/ --- stay mellow
FTD%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA (David D. Story) (08/22/85)
The term hacker and hack come from Cervantes' Don Quixote. This does not refer to surreptitious schemes of children. Hack/er/ing are usually used in such a sense by the ignorant and disgruntled (sometimes "programmers" but usually their supervisors) mainly because they don't understand the computing culture or they wish higher levels of subdivision to propel their own verbosity and ignorance to financial gainliness. Dave
jbn@wdl1.UUCP (08/23/85)
Of course, with the Mackintosh, you need a special screwdriver to open the case. ``There are some things man was not meant to know...'' JN
rlk@chinet.UUCP (Richard L. Klappal) (08/25/85)
>....... An individual that breaks into systems or >steals passwords is NOT a hacker - (S)he is a THIEF or a VANDAL. > .. and should have their fingers guillotined at the elbow!! ( .. :-) INTENTIONALLY OMITTED ) rlk
caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX) (08/25/85)
In article <787@brl-tgr.ARPA> Lear@RU-BLUE.ARPA (eliot lear) writes: >A TRUE hacker (not to be confused with the press' definition) is someone that >knows how to find the "In"s and "Out"s of software or systems. If you have a >problem with a software program or with a system, you should be able to find >help when you find a TRUE hacker. An individual that breaks into systems or >steals passwords is NOT a hacker - (S)he is a THIEF or a VANDAL. Just wait until some legislator's son gets busted for password hacking, and you'll se unprotected computer systems redefined as an ATTRACTIVE NUSIANCE. Ask a swimming pool owner what that means. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf CIS:70715,131 Omen Technology Inc 17505-V NW Sauvie Island Road Portland OR 97231 Voice: 503-621-3406 Modem: 503-621-3746 (Hit CR's for speed detect) omen Any ACU 1200 1-503-621-3746 se:--se: link ord: Giznoid in:--in: uucp Home of Professional-YAM, the most powerful COMM program for the IBM PC
indra@utai.UUCP (Indra Laksono) (08/27/85)
> hacking: a term widly misused all over the world.
Aha. But language is never dead, it has to evolve to encompass new
concepts. If enough people want something to mean something that it
was not supposed to, previously, mean, :-) then,so be it.
..{allegra cornell decvax ihnp4 linus utzoo}!utcsri!utai!indratim@callan.UUCP (Tim Smith) (08/27/85)
> From the Apple IIe Owner's Manual, page 115: > > "About Kids and Computers: Most kids are fearless about computers > and think nothing of popping the top off of the Apple IIe and > rearranging the circuitry just to see what will happen. To discourage > these overzealous hackers, there are screw holes on the Apple IIe > cover so classroom computers can be bolted shut." > > I am too disgusted to comment. What's wrong with protecting **classroom** computers? -- Tim Smith ihnp4!{cithep,wlbr!callan}!tim