LAVITSKY@RU-BLUE.ARPA (Eric) (08/09/85)
>Date: Fri, 9 Aug 85 12:32:55 EDT >From: Tom Hornick (CSC) <thornick@BRL.ARPA> >To: LAVITSKY@RUTGERS.ARPA >Subject: AmigaDOS not im ROM > >Eric, > Just curious as to whether the guy that posted the article on AmigaDOS >was correct about it not being in ROM? If it is true, do you happen to >know why it was removed from being in ROM? > >Thanks, Tom Hi, Yes, there is a 'Kickstart' disk that you must have on power up. The Amiga is still a little far ahead of the Mac and the ST in this regard. Both the Mac and the ST require that their 'finders' be loaded into RAM every time the machine is reset. The Amiga is a little more sophisticated. The Writable Control Store (WCS) is RAM that can be hardware locked. Once the OS is loaded into WCS, the information contained in WCS remains even through hardware resets. This provides an added level of flexibility and power to the Amiga OS designers. Additions and improvements to the OS can be made rather easily. The Mac finder was probably under development longer than AmigaDOS, and there are still problems with it today. The Mac designers and owners should be happy they didn't freeze it into ROM right away (though that is coming apparently). There is or may be still one major difference between the MAC, ST and the Amiga. The writable control store does not detract from user RAM. As far as I can tell it is there in place of ROM above and beyond the normal 256K user RAM (or 512K depending on what you've got). I should know something more definite soon. Eric ARPA: LAVITSKY@RUTGERS UUCP: ...{harvard,seismo,ut-sally,sri-iu,ihnp4!packard}!topaz!eric SNAIL: 16 Oak St., Flr 2 New Brunswick, NJ 08903 -------
csc@watmath.UUCP (Jan Gray) (08/15/85)
In article <584@brl-tgr.ARPA> LAVITSKY@RU-BLUE.ARPA (Eric) writes: > Yes, there is a 'Kickstart' disk that you must have on power >up. The Amiga is still a little far ahead of the Mac and the ST in >this regard. Both the Mac and the ST require that their 'finders' be >loaded into RAM every time the machine is reset. The Amiga is a >little more sophisticated. The Writable Control Store (WCS) is RAM >that can be hardware locked. Once the OS is loaded into WCS, the >information contained in WCS remains even through hardware resets. >This provides an added level of flexibility and power to the Amiga >OS designers. Additions and improvements to the OS can be made >rather easily. The Mac finder was probably under development longer >than AmigaDOS, and there are still problems with it today. The Mac >designers and owners should be happy they didn't freeze it into ROM >right away (though that is coming apparently). There is or may be >still one major difference between the MAC, ST and the Amiga. The >writable control store does not detract from user RAM. As far as I >can tell it is there in place of ROM above and beyond the normal >256K user RAM (or 512K depending on what you've got). I should know >something more definite soon. Boy, the Amiga designers can do no wrong in your eyes! From pictures it seems the Amiga just has another 256K of DRAMs that the OS is loaded into. Who cares if it is "hardware locked"? The Amiga OS must be pretty buggy if the designers went to the trouble of write protecting the OS memory. In an appliance computer such as the Amiga, you should *never* have to reset the machine! Besides, I'd rather have the extra RAM for other things. "This inflammatory message has been brought to you by..." Jan Gray watmath!looking!jan Looking Glass Software, Waterloo 519-884-7473
eric@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Eric Lavitsky) (08/20/85)
>From: csc@watmath.UUCP (Jan Gray) >Date: 15 Aug 85 01:33:44 GMT >From pictures it seems the Amiga just has another 256K of DRAMs that the >OS is loaded into. Who cares if it is "hardware locked"? The Amiga OS >must be pretty buggy if the designers went to the trouble of write protecting >the OS memory. In an appliance computer such as the Amiga, you should *never* >have to reset the machine! Well, I've learned a little more. The OS is loaded into RAM and the write enable line to the RAM is turned off. Who called the Amiga an 'appliance' computer? - sounds like Steve Jobs' Mac jargon to me... and people are always resetting their Macs... Eric -- ARPA: LAVITSKY@RUTGERS UUCP: ...{harvard,seismo,ut-sally,sri-iu,ihnp4}!topaz!eric SNAIL: 16 Oak St., Flr 2 New Brunswick, NJ 08903
john@frog.UUCP (John Woods) (08/20/85)
> In article <584@brl-tgr.ARPA> LAVITSKY@RU-BLUE.ARPA (Eric) writes: > > Yes, there is a 'Kickstart' disk that you must have on power > >up. The Amiga is still a little far ahead of the Mac and the ST in > >this regard. Both the Mac and the ST require that their 'finders' be > >loaded into RAM every time the machine is reset. The Amiga is a
john@x.UUCP (John Woods) (08/21/85)
*** Sigh, this seems to have been truncated by frog first time around... *** *** I guess I will remove my sarcasm while I'm reposting this... *** > In article <584@brl-tgr.ARPA> LAVITSKY@RU-BLUE.ARPA (Eric) writes: > > Yes, there is a 'Kickstart' disk that you must have on power > >up. The Amiga is still a little far ahead of the Mac and the ST in > >this regard. Both the Mac and the ST require that their 'finders' be > >loaded into RAM every time the machine is reset. The Amiga is a > >little more sophisticated. The Writable Control Store (WCS) is RAM > >that can be hardware locked. Once the OS is loaded into WCS, the > > Boy, the Amiga designers can do no wrong in your eyes! > > From pictures it seems the Amiga just has another 256K of DRAMs that the > OS is loaded into. Who cares if it is "hardware locked"? The Amiga OS >must be pretty buggy if the designers went to the trouble of write protecting >the OS memory. In an appliance computer such as the Amiga, you should *never* > have to reset the machine! First, you must remember that occaisionally we mere mortals who program make mistakes. I would much rather have an OS bug *not* smash the OS than go ahead and smash it. I would even be more ecstatic to be able to get a new revision of their OS by just changing Kickstart disks, rather than opening up the cheap plastic container (damaging those *&^%^*@# Phillips head screws in the process) and popping in new ROMS (bending pin 16 while I'm at it...). What's more, since they failed to provide a Memory Management Unit (shame, shame, shame), user code too has the opportunity to damage the OS (applications programmers make mistakes, too). The OS darn well better be unwritable while the machine runs, and that means either nnnK of ROM or nnnK of RAM. I think they make a tremendously good case for RAM here. Three cheers and a bunny for the Amiga developers! -- John Woods, Charles River Data Systems, Framingham MA, (617) 626-1101 ...!decvax!frog!john, ...!mit-eddie!jfw, jfw%mit-ccc@MIT-XX.ARPA
horton@fortune.UUCP (Randy Horton) (08/27/85)
In article <536@x.UUCP> john@x.UUCP (John Woods) writes: >> In article <584@brl-tgr.ARPA> LAVITSKY@RU-BLUE.ARPA (Eric) writes: >> > Yes, there is a 'Kickstart' disk that you must have on power >> >up..... >> >> From pictures it seems the Amiga just has another 256K of DRAMs that the >> OS is loaded into. Who cares if it is "hardware locked"? The Amiga OS >>must be pretty buggy if the designers went to the trouble of write protecting >>the OS memory. In an appliance computer such as the Amiga, you should *never* >> have to reset the machine! That is, if you only run canned software that is in itself 100% bug free.. A computer that never needs to be reset? I guess that will be along about the same time as the VAX/laptop :-) > >First, you must remember that occaisionally we mere mortals who program make >mistakes. I would much rather have an OS bug *not* smash the OS than go ahead >and smash it. I would even be more ecstatic to be able to get a new revision >of their OS by just changing Kickstart disks, rather than opening up the cheap >plastic container (damaging those *&^%^*@# Phillips head screws in the >process) and popping in new ROMS (bending pin 16 while I'm at it...). > > Imagine that you bought a new model of computer, one that would fit your needs perfectly. Imagine then that you found out that the OS (in ROM, as you wanted) has a bug which prevents you from using a certain peripheral/software package which was what you really wanted to do. You then find out that in the six months since you bought the machine, the manufacturer has come out with a new revision of the OS that fixes the problem. If you are lucky, the manufacturer has a program to upgrade the machines with the old ROMs, otherwise you can buy a new machine, or keep the one you bought which does not do what you want. What do you think of kickstart disks now? This happened to me, and I had to buy a new machine. I am going to buy an Amiga, and I am sure glad they are putting the OS in RAM. Any OS this sophisiticated will no doubt be improved in time. I want to be able to upgrade, not replace. > >Three cheers and a bunny for the Amiga developers! > More cheers, and please hurry up and get it in the stores. -- +---------------------------------------------+ | allegra\ Randy Horton @ Fortune Systems | | cbosgd \ | | dual >!fortune!ranhome!randy | | ihnp4 / | | nsc / Clever disclaimer goes here | +---------------------------------------------+
rb@ccivax.UUCP (rex ballard) (09/18/85)
> In article <536@x.UUCP> john@x.UUCP (John Woods) writes: > >> In article <584@brl-tgr.ARPA> LAVITSKY@RU-BLUE.ARPA (Eric) writes: > >> > Yes, there is a 'Kickstart' disk that you must have on power > >> >up..... > >> > >> From pictures it seems the Amiga just has another 256K of DRAMs that the > >> OS is loaded into. Who cares if it is "hardware locked"? The Amiga OS > >>must be pretty buggy if the designers went to the trouble of write protecting > >>the OS memory. In an appliance computer such as the Amiga, you should *never* > >> have to reset the machine! > > That is, if you only run canned software that is in itself 100% bug free.. > A computer that never needs to be reset? I guess that will be along about the > same time as the VAX/laptop :-) > > > >First, you must remember that occaisionally we mere mortals who program make > >mistakes. I would much rather have an OS bug *not* smash the OS than go ahead > >and smash it. I would even be more ecstatic to be able to get a new revision > >of their OS by just changing Kickstart disks, rather than opening up the cheap > >plastic container (damaging those *&^%^*@# Phillips head screws in the > >process) and popping in new ROMS (bending pin 16 while I'm at it...). > > > > > Imagine that you bought a new model of computer, one that would fit your needs > perfectly. Imagine then that you found out that the OS (in ROM, as you > wanted) has a bug which prevents you from using a certain peripheral/software > package which was what you really wanted to do. You then find out that in the > six months since you bought the machine, the manufacturer has come out with > a new revision of the OS that fixes the problem. If you are lucky, the > manufacturer has a program to upgrade the machines with the old ROMs, Like choosing between those new APPLE Proms or The Mega Max (kinda hard to switch back and forth) > otherwise you can buy a new machine, or keep the one you bought which does not > do what you want. What do you think of kickstart disks now? This happened > to me, and I had to buy a new machine. I am going to buy an Amiga, and I am > sure glad they are putting the OS in RAM. Any OS this sophisiticated will no > doubt be improved in time. I want to be able to upgrade, not replace. > > > > >Three cheers and a bunny for the Amiga developers! > > > More cheers, and please hurry up and get it in the stores. > > -- > +---------------------------------------------+ > | allegra\ Randy Horton @ Fortune Systems | > | cbosgd \ | > | dual >!fortune!ranhome!randy | > | ihnp4 / | > | nsc / Clever disclaimer goes here | > +---------------------------------------------+ Good thing the ram is expandable! (HINT,HINT,HINT ATARI) (see net.micro.atari)