phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) (03/05/91)
I have just been burned big-time by a combination of things including (1) my own stupidity and haste, (2) Encore's poor software, and (3) an unfortuante clash of names between Encore and Sun. When one looks at UMAX 4.3, one sees how carefully Encore tried to make it look just like SunOS. They use /var. They have an "NFS" option. They support YP (or at least claim to). They have /etc/netgroups. It was really unfortunate that there was one thing they DIDN'T emulate Sun on: the name of the disk utility program. Granted, the name "format" on the Sun's is misleading at best, and turns out to do a whole lot more than format. BUT, the program /usr/etc/format on UMAX does one thing and one thing only: format the disk. I am now running restore on one of our largest partitions. Why? Because I was trying to find the physical geometry characteristics of that disk, and I tried to do it by running "format". Poor choice of name. Now on every other system in the world (even DEC systems!), the formatting utility asks you at least once (if not three times) if you are sure that you want to do this. But on this hunk of silicon the format utility just blindly does its job. And I mean blindly! Does it check to see if maybe this disk has mounted partitions? Of course not? Does it do a last second operator-sanity check before engaging in such a destructive act? Of course not. "YOU typed it, so YOU have to suffer the consequences!" And I am. I am MAD at Encore and I am MAD at myself. How could they have done something so stupid!? How could I have done something so stupid!? Comments? William LeFebvre Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science Northwestern University <phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
brennan@merk.UUCP (Rich Brennan) (03/10/91)
In article <1991Mar5.010514.4544@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) writes: >I am MAD at Encore and I am MAD at myself. How could they have done >something so stupid!? How could I have done something so stupid!? > >Comments? Uhhh, don't do that again? :-) Rich -- brennan@merk.com ...!uunet!merk!brennan Rich Brennan
clyde@ut-emx.cc.utexas.edu (Clyde W. Hoover) (03/14/91)
In article <4095@merk.UUCP>, brennan@merk.UUCP (Rich Brennan) writes: |> In article <1991Mar5.010514.4544@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) writes: |> >I am MAD at Encore and I am MAD at myself. How could they have done |> >something so stupid!? How could I have done something so stupid!? |> > |> >Comments? |> |> Uhhh, don't do that again? |> |> :-) |> |> Rich |> How about "Reading The F&#!@%~ Manual" before starting up any program called "format" while super-user? I know, I know, its' simple enough to say... Clyde Hoover (Shouter-To-Dead-Parrots) | UNIX/VMS Services | "Any sufficently advanced technology Compuatation Center, UT Austin | is indisguishable from a rigged demo." clyde@emx.utexas.edu |
phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) (03/14/91)
In article <45555@ut-emx.uucp>, clyde@ut-emx.cc.utexas.edu (Clyde W. Hoover) writes: |> How about "Reading The F&#!@%~ Manual" before starting up any program called |> "format" while super-user? I know, I know, its' simple enough to say... Okay. "man format"... ---------------- FORMAT(8S) MAINTENANCE COMMANDS FORMAT(8S) NAME format - disk partitioning and maintenance utility SYNOPSIS format [ -f command-file ] [ -l log-file ] [ -x data-file ] [ -d disk-name ] [ -t disk_type ] [ -p partition-name ] [ -s ] diskname... DESCRIPTION format enables you to format, label, repair and analyze disks on your Sun computer.... ---------------- Oh gee. That was "man format" on my *SUN*.... If you still don't get it, what I'm trying to say is that Sun has a "format" too, and it does something very very different from Encore's format. It does format the disk, but it also does just about everything else associated with disk maintenance. Am I to type "man cmdname" before typing every command as root to make sure that I don't have the wrong name because manufacturers can't agree on what programs in /usr/etc should do what? I freely admitted in my original post (by the way, did you even bother reading that?) that I had made a mistake by typing the wrong command. But I was enraged by the fact that a program as destructive as "format" would not at least ask you first "Are you sure you want to do this?" or "Do YOU know what you are doing?" Do you know what you have to do to format a disk with Sun's format? You type "format", you select a disk from a list it presents you, you type "format" again, at which point the program says: "Ready to format. Formatting cannot be interrupted and takes a long while. Continue?" William LeFebvre Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science Northwestern University <phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
jdarcy@seqp4.ORG (Jeffrey D'Arcy) (03/20/91)
phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) writes: >If you still don't get it, what I'm trying to say is that Sun has a >"format" too, and it does something very very different from Encore's Yippee. I for one am glad that Encore didn't expend more effort trying to emulate Sun. I wonder if you get annoyed at people who keep saying "...but it works on a VAX" or "the Mac does this much better". You're no less annoying than they are. >Am I to type "man cmdname" before typing every command as root to make >sure that I don't have the wrong name because manufacturers can't agree >on what programs in /usr/etc should do what? Maybe you should familiarize yourself with the systems you're charged to administer. Has your brain been so rotted by overexposure to Sun's own brand of insanity that you're incapable of dealing with a different but no less standard UNIX system? Seems to me that this whole episode could have been avoided if you'd stop mucking around as root and leave the administration to those who have some clue what they're doing. >Do you know what you have to do to format a disk with Sun's format? Ask me if I care. BTW, note the change in posting address. Since I'm no longer at Encore, you can't go whining to Encore management about my posts like you did last time.
jcallen@Encore.COM (Jerry Callen) (03/21/91)
In article <702@seqp4.UUCP> jdarcy@seqp4.ORG (Jeffrey D'Arcy) writes: >phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) writes: > >>If you still don't get it, what I'm trying to say is that Sun has a >>"format" too, and it does something very very different from Encore's > >Yippee. I for one am glad that Encore didn't expend more effort trying >to emulate Sun. I wonder if you get annoyed at people who keep saying >"...but it works on a VAX" or "the Mac does this much better". You're >no less annoying than they are. Yes, it _is_ annoying to hear that a competitor may be doing something right. I wouldn't expect disk formatting programs to all work the same way across different hardware and software. I _would_ expect at least some request for confirmation before wiping out the entire contents of a disk. -- Jerry Callen jcallen@encore.com Obligatory disclaimer: I'm speaking for myself and not Encore. My opinion on disk formatting is clearly at odds with how Encore software currently works. Somehow I doubt that anyone in Encore management will give me any grief for voicing that opinion.