kapil@zarquon.uchicago.edu (Kapil Paranjape) (11/14/90)
For a long term user of vi the real advantage that is offered by emacs is the possibility of moving around in insert and replace mode. Of course this can also be done in vi with map! but it is nice to have this feature in-built (and hence faster?). So let me come to the main question---has someone already written a MINT version of vip (MINT is the alternative to elisp in Freemacs) or should one sit down and write one...with the 64K limitation is this feasible? Kapil. e-mail: kapil@zaphod.uchicago.edu
mayoff@cs.utexas.edu (Robert Mayoff) (11/14/90)
In article <1990Nov13.191004.11654@midway.uchicago.edu> kapil@zarquon.uchicago.edu (Kapil Paranjape) writes: >For a long term user of vi the real advantage that is offered by emacs >is the possibility of moving around in insert and replace mode. Of >course this can also be done in vi with map! but it is nice to have >this feature in-built (and hence faster?). ^ Let me comment on this statement. | To get it out of the way, the arrow keys are by no means faster than either the normal emacs movement keys nor the vi movement keys for two reasons: they transmit multiple characters (on most terminals) all of which must be parsed, and you must take your hand away from the home keys to use them (a serious slowdown for my 70 WPM speed). So, let's ignore them. Now, let's examine the situation. In emacs, ^N ^P ^F ^B move in the cardinal directions. This means that to move in that fashion, you must hold down control. Further, none of these keys is normal under any of your fingers (if you're a ten-finger touch typist, which I am). Holding down control is uncomfortable, and then you must reach around for the movement keys (admittedly not a long reach since keyboards aren't that huge). With vi, h j k l move in the cardinal directions, but only in command mode. However, to get to command mode from insert/replace mode, I simply press and release ESC, or ^[ (which I use some terminals). Then, I get to use keys which are right under my fingers to move. I don't have to reach, and I don't have to hold down control. I'd say it's faster to use the vi keys, and no disadvantage at all. Yes, you could remap emacs keys to emulate this, but like you said, it's nice to have this feature "in-built." -- /_ rob <mayoff@cs.utexas.edu> /_ Fun things to do with UNIX (#12 in a series): / cd /dev; cat mouse # Try this on a Sun. Really!
leech@cezanne.cs.unc.edu (Jonathan Leech) (11/14/90)
In article <986@latexo.cs.utexas.edu>, mayoff@cs.utexas.edu (Robert Mayoff) writes: |>To get it out of the way, the arrow keys are by no means faster than |>either the normal emacs movement keys nor the vi movement keys for two |>reasons: they transmit multiple characters (on most terminals) all of |>which must be parsed, and you must take your hand away from the home |>keys to use them (a serious slowdown for my 70 WPM speed). So, let's |>ignore them. I generally ignore emacs vs. vi debates, since I use neither of them, but I wonder what type of machine you're using that the overhead of reading and interpreting the arrow keys is at all noticeable. Perhaps an Apple II with editors written in BASIC? :-)
mayoff@cs.utexas.edu (Robert Mayoff) (11/15/90)
In article <17528@thorin.cs.unc.edu> leech@cezanne.cs.unc.edu (Jonathan Leech) writes: >... I wonder what type of machine you're using that the overhead of reading >and interpreting the arrow keys is at all noticeable. ... Well, I normally use Sparcstation 1's and 1's+ (I hate saying 1+'s). It's not noticeable if you just press one once, but it's more noticeable when it is held down. It's very noticeable when I log in remotely from a 9600 baud terminal. -- /_ rob <mayoff@cs.utexas.edu> /_ Fun things to do with UNIX (#12 in a series): / cd /dev; cat mouse # Try this on a Sun. Really!