roseman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Mark Roseman) (05/24/91)
I'm going to be teaching a bunch of fairly bright high school kids
some computer stuff for a few weeks this summer. Some of it will be on
Unix. From past experience, I know that the amount of time they spend
figuring out logging on, editing files, etc. has to be minimized.
What I'd like are recommendations for a very simple, small text editor.
It shouldn't do anything fancy---move the cursor, type text, backspace
to delete, tab, save files, quit, maybe delete lines, and thats about
it. As well, the terminals they'll be using have arrow keys, so it
should be configurable (not by them) to take advantage of them.
If anyone has any suggestions for this (ftp-able preferably), please
email me. Thanks.
--
==============================================================================
Mark Roseman
Dept. of Computer Science, University of Calgary, Calgary, Alta. T2N 1N4
(403) 220-5769 roseman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca {ubc-cs|alberta}!calgary!rosemants@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) (05/25/91)
In article <1991May24.162654.2462@cpsc.ucalgary.ca> roseman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Mark Roseman) writes: : >What I'd like are recommendations for a very simple, small text editor. >It shouldn't do anything fancy---move the cursor, type text, backspace : I don't want to discourage you, nor sound unconstructive, but from a a bitter exprience I can assure you that a simple Unix editor (or a simple Unix anything) is a contradiction in terms. (I use MicroEmacs myself. What a drag). ................................................................... Prof. Timo Salmi Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous ftp archives 128.214.12.37 School of Business Studies, University of Vaasa, SF-65101, Finland Internet: ts@chyde.uwasa.fi Funet: gado::salmi Bitnet: salmi@finfun
roseman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Mark Roseman) (05/27/91)
I earlier asked about a simple editor for Unix, for use with some fairly
bright high school kids, but who possibly are unfamiliar with computers.
I've received a few replies (thanks!) suggesting the use of vi or some
variety of emacs.
I'd ruled out vi already -- its not something you can get comfortable with
in five minutes (try explaining to computer novices why you need modes,
and then why "hjkl" are reasonable, and expect them to intuitively grasp
it.. remember, this is for short periods; if they were learning unix for
regular use, they'd be learning emacs or vi for sure!). Emacs had more
hope for me anyways (I use emacs myself).
I talked to one of our system hacks here, and he wants to set up
some stuff either in MicroGmacs or Gmacs that would do what I wanted:
* insert text
* move with arrow keys
* delete, backspace work as normal
* escape key exits editor, prompting dialog to save if necessary
* every other function turned off (no explaining why that weird
message got on the screen) {probably put in an obscure backdoor
to get out of the mode anyways...}
--
==============================================================================
Mark Roseman
Dept. of Computer Science, University of Calgary, Calgary, Alta. T2N 1N4
(403) 220-5769 roseman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca {ubc-cs|alberta}!calgary!rosemanguy@auspex.auspex.com (Guy Harris) (05/28/91)
>I don't want to discourage you, nor sound unconstructive, but from a >a bitter exprience I can assure you that a simple Unix editor (or a >simple Unix anything) is a contradiction in terms. By "*A* bitter experience" do you mean to say that you've had experience with *one particular* editor advertised as a "simple UNIX editor" and concluded from that experience that *no* editor advertised as a "simple UNIX editor" can possibly be such an editor? If so, then you need to indicate what that editor was, and what about it led you to that conclusion, so that we know whether your experience really *can* be the basis of such a conclusion or not. >(I use MicroEmacs myself. What a drag). How so?
gast@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (David Gast) (05/28/91)
In article <1991May26.170721.12216@cpsc.ucalgary.ca> roseman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Mark Roseman) writes: >I'd ruled out vi already -- its not something you can get comfortable with >in five minutes (try explaining to computer novices why you need modes, >and then why "hjkl" are reasonable Every editor has modes to some extent. Even something like wordstar has modes. Insert can be on or off, etc. If you don't like hjkl, then use the arrow keys. I prefer hjkl, but ... David
ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) (05/28/91)
In article <8052@auspex.auspex.com> guy@auspex.auspex.com (Guy Harris) writes: : >If so, then you need to indicate what that editor was, and what about it >led you to that conclusion, so that we know whether your experience >really *can* be the basis of such a conclusion or not. : Let me take a shortcut by responding by this extract from my /pc/ts/tsfaq21.arc even if it has mostly PC specific stuff in it. (The Unix editors I've tried at one stage or another are MicroEmacs, Emacs, and vi). 15. ***** Q: What is the best text editor? A: These are difficult questions, especially since almost every user is more or less biased in favor of the program he/she is best familiar with. In the case of text editors these personal views easily flare up into what is appropriately termed as "editor wars". But also objectively speaking there is a good rationale for defending the editor one is used to. Almost each editor involves a great number of predefined (or customizable) key combinations, which at first are difficult to learn, but very natural after one has gotten used to them after extended exposure. This means, that changing over to another editor (even a considerably better one) will involve a high cost of learning. This explains the ardent defensive positions users tend to take, if they feel that their hard-learned habits come under threat when someone else puts down their favorite editor (let alone insists on changing over to their own editor choice). This is how most editor wars break out. Once these cautionary words being said, let me tell you about my own text editor choices. I would prefer to use only a single editor to make life easier for me. This is has not been possible since I have needed editors for several operating systems. These systems have been MsDos, Unix, VAX/VMS, and at an earlier stage Sinclair QL QDOS. Since I write quite a lot of programs in Turbo Pascal, this has dictated my choice of the MsDos text editor to editors with WordStar like commands. At one early stage I even used Turbo Pascal 3.02A as my text editor besides as my compiler. Hence the obvious choice for me has been /pc/editor/qedit21.zip SemWare's QEdit Advanced 2.1 shareware editor. It has very similar commands to Turbo Pascal's integrated editor. There are just two features missing in QEdit which I would like to have. One is the lack of markers to return easily to a spot. The other is that I would dearly like to have the possibility of right-adjusted text. These aside, Qedit has many nice features including configurability, small size (an important consideration for laptops), and useful macro programming (not very easy, though). I also like and need its potential to copy and move columns besides just rows. I won't make the error of saying here that there aren't better text editors, but I can recommend this editor as one good choice. Incidentally, I've written a couple of macros for QEdit myself. They are available as /pc/ts/tsqed10.arc from garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous ftp archives. In the VAX/VMS environment I earlier used its EDT editor, which is well suited to MsKermit terminal emulation with the PC keypad layout. But when we acquired a Unix Sun 4 to our computer centre as our main computer, I simply had no other viable choice than to learn to use MicroEmacs. Along with many other EDT users I still intensely hate MicroEmacs (even if I am now fully conversant with it). But as MicroEmacs is available for VAX/VMS I have dumped the EDT editor in order to get by with fewer text editors. I even occasionally use MicroEmacs on my PC for special tasks (eg very long lines) which QEdit cannot handle. The point I want to make here is that the portability of MicroEmacs has been important enough for me to overcome my aversion of its user interface, even if I still feel it is overly complicated to use. And what I have written here is typical of editor discussions. Even if I've tried to be analytical, in retrospect this text much more emotional than my average text. -------------------------------------------------------------------- ................................................................... Prof. Timo Salmi Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous ftp archives 128.214.12.37 School of Business Studies, University of Vaasa, SF-65101, Finland Internet: ts@chyde.uwasa.fi Funet: gado::salmi Bitnet: salmi@finfun
sysop@mixcom.COM (System Operator) (05/29/91)
Two Suggestions: DTE and e. Both are free full-screen editors with a limited command set. They are similar to Word Star and use control codes/keys. DTE uses termcap/terminfo. E is hardcoded for ANSI/vt100. Other editors are available from UUNET's source code archive, or other archives. I understand there is one called crisp, but I have not tried it yet. Suggested Contacts: (I do not know it these addresses are valid at this time.) DTE: Tim Tsai it1@ra.msstate.edu E : Joseph Allen jallen@ic.sunysb.edu jhallen@wpi.wpi.edu Dean Roth
imc@prg.ox.ac.uk (Ian Collier) (05/29/91)
In article <1991May28.062841.3170@uwasa.fi>, ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) wrote: >But also objectively speaking there is a good rationale for >defending the editor one is used to. Almost each editor involves a >great number of predefined (or customizable) key combinations, which >at first are difficult to learn, but very natural after one has >gotten used to them after extended exposure. This means, that >changing over to another editor (even a considerably better one) >will involve a high cost of learning. Moreover, if you have used a particular customisable editor (particlularly xedit and emacs) for a long period of time, you end up with a unique editor which is specialised for your taste, needs and editing skills. It is then an incredibly difficult task to make the same adjustments to a new editor if you were to change over. Ian Collier Ian.Collier@prg.ox.ac.uk | imc@ecs.ox.ac.uk
gaynor@yoko.rutgers.edu (Silver) (06/01/91)
> Moreover, if you have used a particular customisable editor (particlularly > xedit and emacs) for a long period of time, you end up with a unique editor > which is specialised for your taste, needs and editing skills. It is then an > incredibly difficult task to make the same adjustments to a new editor if you > were to change over. The importance of being able to switch editors is falling off. I know just enough vi to install GNU Emacs. And programmers are getting better about recognizing points of customizability (eg, honoring the value of the envariable EDITOR). Regards, [Ag]