gaynor@yoko.rutgers.edu (Silver) (05/28/91)
Whatever is all the fuss about? You want a simple editor, you write a simple
mode for GNU Emacs and disable whatever other neat shit gets in the way, at
least (setq auto-mode-alist '(("\\`[\000-\377]*\\'" . simple-mode))). Take an
hour for the mode itself, another to polish, and probably one more the next day
after you've had a chance to sleep on it. Presumes strong emacs experience,
though.
Regards, [Ag]ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) (05/29/91)
In article <May.28.10.41.19.1991.17169@yoko.rutgers.edu> gaynor@yoko.rutgers.edu (Silver) writes: >Whatever is all the fuss about? You want a simple editor, you write a simple >mode for GNU Emacs and disable whatever other neat shit gets in the way, at : And in order to do that one needs to know how to deal with GNU Emacs. Do I detect a teeny weeny vicious circle somewhere :-). ................................................................... Prof. Timo Salmi Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous ftp archives 128.214.12.37 School of Business Studies, University of Vaasa, SF-65101, Finland Internet: ts@chyde.uwasa.fi Funet: gado::salmi Bitnet: salmi@finfun
Dan_Jacobson@ATT.COM (05/29/91)
>>>>> On 28 May 91 20:29:26 GMT, ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) said: Timo> In article <May.28.10.41.19.1991.17169@yoko.rutgers.edu> gaynor@yoko.rutgers.edu (Silver) writes: >Whatever is all the fuss about? You want a simple editor, you write a simple >mode for GNU Emacs and disable whatever other neat shit gets in the way, at Timo> And in order to do that one needs to know how to deal with GNU Timo> Emacs. Do I detect a teeny weeny vicious circle somewhere :-). I think they meant that the person who wanted to present the simple editor to the students would write the mode. So you have just the presenter (one person) who needs the emacs knowledge, not the students.
nigelm@ohm.york.ac.uk (Nigel Metheringham) (05/29/91)
In <1991May29.012942.28869@cbfsb.att.com> Dan_Jacobson@ATT.COM writes: >>>>>> On 28 May 91 20:29:26 GMT, ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) said: >Timo> In article <May.28.10.41.19.1991.17169@yoko.rutgers.edu> gaynor@yoko.rutgers.edu (Silver) writes: >>Whatever is all the fuss about? You want a simple editor, you write a simple >>mode for GNU Emacs and disable whatever other neat shit gets in the way, at >Timo> And in order to do that one needs to know how to deal with GNU >Timo> Emacs. Do I detect a teeny weeny vicious circle somewhere :-). >I think they meant that the person who wanted to present the simple >editor to the students would write the mode. So you have just the >presenter (one person) who needs the emacs knowledge, not the students. I end up with the problem, however, that gnu emacs is a >1MB image, and does not do a great deal for the system's performance (well actually it does - a dozen invocations of emacs slogs the performance drastically). Thats why we only make Micro-EMACS available for student use. Emacs is fine as long as you a prepared to pay the price for having a complete operating system written in lisp within your editor! Nigel. -- # Nigel Metheringham # (NeXT) EMail: nigelm@ohm.york.ac.uk # # System Administrator ####### Phone: +44 904 432374 # # Department of Electronics # Fax: +44 904 432335 # # University of York, Heslington, York, UK, YO1 5DD #
Dan_Jacobson@ATT.COM (05/30/91)
>>>>> On 29 May 91 16:48:28 GMT, nigelm@ohm.york.ac.uk (Nigel >>>>> Metheringham) said: Nigel> a dozen invocations of emacs slogs the performance Nigel> drastically). Thats why we only make Micro-EMACS available for Nigel> student use. Not to laugh at equipment/$ restraints, but I always considered it a violation on the Geneva Convention on Minimal Treatment of Students (;-)) to deny them GNU Emacs. It may also result in permanent impairment. [please reply to netnews, not mail]
datta@vacs.uwp.edu (David Datta) (05/30/91)
In article <1991May30.024532.2228@cbfsb.att.com> Dan_Jacobson@ihlpz.ATT.COM writes: > nigelm@ohm.york.ac.uk (Nigel Metheringham) said: >Nigel> a dozen invocations of emacs slogs the performance >Nigel> drastically). Thats why we only make Micro-EMACS available for >Nigel> student use. >Not to laugh at equipment/$ restraints, but I always considered it a >violation on the Geneva Convention on Minimal Treatment of Students >(;-)) to deny them GNU Emacs. It may also result in permanent >impairment. Well then, I guess we are mistreating our students here! I installed Emacs and ran it for 1 day, after some playing with multiple copies running and watching the system load skyrocket with each additional copy, we decided to just leave well enough alone and run vi. We are now in the situation where we have _complete_ computer novices starting to use e-mail, we really need a SMALL simple editor. Running module X over Emacs is NOT an option here. -- -Dave datta@vacs.uwp.edu.
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (05/31/91)
In article <1991May29.164828.6077@ohm.york.ac.uk> nigelm@ohm.york.ac.uk (Nigel Metheringham) writes:
I end up with the problem, however, that gnu emacs is a >1MB image,
and does not do a great deal for the system's performance (well
actually it does - a dozen invocations of emacs slogs the
performance drastically). Thats why we only make Micro-EMACS
available for student use.
I wonder when computer time will become less important than the user's
time? What kind of equipment are you using over across the pond? The
main binary of Emacs is shared among all the users so you are going to
have 12MB images for 12 users. How much does RAM cost in the UK? We
just bought 16MB of RAM for our NeXT Cube for $640. Hell, a 68040
NeXTstation costs $3250 and a SPARC SLC costs $2700 at educational
prices. That's enough mips to make me add 'alias vi emacs -nw -q' to
my .cshrc.
Emacs is fine as long as you a prepared to pay the price for having
a complete operating system written in lisp within your editor!
Memmory and mips are cheap. What's the big deal?
-Mikedylan@ibmpcug.co.uk (Matthew Farwell) (05/31/91)
In article <&hcHf4qi@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: >In article <1991May29.164828.6077@ohm.york.ac.uk> nigelm@ohm.york.ac.uk (Nigel Metheringham) writes: > > I end up with the problem, however, that gnu emacs is a >1MB image, > and does not do a great deal for the system's performance (well > actually it does - a dozen invocations of emacs slogs the > performance drastically). Thats why we only make Micro-EMACS > available for student use. > >I wonder when computer time will become less important than the user's >time? What kind of equipment are you using over across the pond? The >main binary of Emacs is shared among all the users so you are going to >have 12MB images for 12 users. How much does RAM cost in the UK? We >just bought 16MB of RAM for our NeXT Cube for $640. Hell, a 68040 >NeXTstation costs $3250 and a SPARC SLC costs $2700 at educational >prices. That's enough mips to make me add 'alias vi emacs -nw -q' to >my .cshrc. Just because it's cheap in the States doesn't mean its cheap over here. In general, when you're converting US/Canadian prices to British prices, just replace the $ sign with a pound sign(for computer related stuff). This makes a bit of a difference, with pounds being worth about 2 dollars. This tends to work for books too, with books generally being around 25 - 30 quid each here. Anyway, even if memory/mips are cheap, that doesn't mean we actually have to use them all does it? > Emacs is fine as long as you a prepared to pay the price for having > a complete operating system written in lisp within your editor! >Memmory and mips are cheap. What's the big deal? They aren't. They may be for you, but not for some of us. Dylan. -- Matthew J Farwell: dylan@ibmpcug.co.uk || ...!uunet!ukc!ibmpcug!dylan But you're wrong Steve. You see, its only solitaire.
gaynor@yoko.rutgers.edu (Silver) (06/01/91)
nigelm@ohm.york.ac.uk (Nigel Metheringham): > I end up with the problem, however, that gnu emacs is a >1MB image, and does > not do a great deal for the system's performance (well actually it does - a > dozen invocations of emacs slogs the performance drastically). Yeah, in comparison, Emacs says "oink". FSF's response is usually on the order of, "We've got a lot of other stuff to do than optimize emacs for space.". So it's up to you. Play with your configuration. Reduce the amount of lisp dumped, make sure you're not loading in unused libraries, etc. I'm not really well-versed in this department, but you might knock off a third. But the situation you're describing sounds more like the OS or its configuration is the problem (poor virtual memory performance). Considering the amount of work emacs does (eg, computing indentation levels can be expensive, usually performed when tab is struck), emacs itself is not all that slow. What's your platform? Regards, [Ag]
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (06/02/91)
In article <1991May31.093443.23588@ibmpcug.co.uk> dylan@ibmpcug.co.uk (Matthew Farwell) writes:
Just because it's cheap in the States doesn't mean its cheap over here.
In general, when you're converting US/Canadian prices to British prices,
just replace the $ sign with a pound sign(for computer related stuff).
This makes a bit of a difference, with pounds being worth about 2
dollars. This tends to work for books too, with books generally being
around 25 - 30 quid each here.
Fortunately, HP probably just set off a heated price/performance
battle that should drive prices down.
Anyway, even if memory/mips are cheap, that doesn't mean we actually
have to use them all does it?
What advantage would there be in not using them? You can't save 1/2
of your 15 mips every second and use them when you have a really big
job.
They aren't. They may be for you, but not for some of us.
Give it a year or two and it will be for you too. Just in time for
Emacs 19 :-).
-Mike