[sci.psychology] Living in the 20th C

tom@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Thomas C Hajdu) (02/28/88)

"It is simple to say that if a new technology extends one or
more of our senses outside us into the social world, then new
ratios among all of our senses will occur in that particular culture...
And when the sense ratios alter in any culture then what had
appeared lucid before may suddenly be opaque, and what had been vague 
or opaque will suddenly become translucent."

			    "The Gutenberg Galaxy"
			     Marshall McLuhan


In general, I've been noticing that I am changing the modes by
which I communicate. For example, when I want to 
find out about something, reading feels less
comfortable than does watching tv. 
I get the sense that reading is less vital and available than it
seems to have been in the past, while the availability of tv seems to 
be constantly increasing. Even the act of writing these feelings
down seems inappropriate -- negating the experience that I am trying to 
describe.

Its not that the act of reading feels wrong, its rather the
way in which that medium transmits its information to me that I find 
distracting --  the linear patterns of the written word as opposed to the
non-linearity of tv images.

When I refer to "linear" I dont mean it in the strictest meta-
physical sense of time and consequentiality, I mean it in the sense of
an association of ideas and ordering of incoming information. 
In 5 minutes on tv you can get a 30 second 
summary of world events, five 20 second commercials, a bunch of music and
the summary of an upcoming hour long tv drama. This information is not
ordered for you by another human being but is chaotic, and in that
sense non-linear. 

Some contemporary writers have managed to represent 
non-linearity in their prose but I always end up somehow feeling that what 
I've experienced is a peculiar imitation
of what I really wanted to get out of the read --  as if I am 
experiencing a crude representation of what
the writer truely wanted to convey --
linear representations imitating non-linear patterns --
linearity feebly imitating the way in which I perceive the world.

When I listen to music, I find that I don't have the 
patience to listen to a long piece from beginning to end. 
Its not a lack of concentration as much as a lack of interest. Instead,
I prefer to flip between composers, operating the turntable
and its records as I do the tv and its ninety available channels.

Whether its a preference to watch tv over reading or listening to a
bunch of records instead of going to a concert, I keep feeling that 
people are becoming less social beings.

Tom Hajdu
Music Dept
Princeton University

greg@physics.UUCP (02/29/88)

I too have noticed quite the same phenomena. Much to my own distress, I find that
I would rather watch the news on TV than actually sit down and read the paper. 
People tend to look for the more 'accessible', for lack of a better work, way of
obtaining information. It is yet another indication of the intellectual and cultural
decline of America - this kind of fast food approach to everything...

-greg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|| Greg Tusar           AT&T Bell Laboratories   Photonics and Electronics Research  |
||			600 Mountain Avenue	 (201) 464-6092			     |
|| {allegra||ihnp4}!physics!greg                 				     |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|| Greg Tusar           AT&T Bell Laboratories   Photonics and Electronics Research  ||
||			600 Mountain Avenue	 (201) 464-6092			     ||
|| {allegra||ihnp4}!physics!greg                 				     ||

kaw@uoregon.UUCP (Keith Alan Weinberger) (02/29/88)

Regarding the non-linearity of television:
	I still watch television news, but only from time to time.  Basically,
I get bored because there is not enough depth and the reporting is slanted to 
appeal to conventional American opinions: small farmers good, corporate farmers
bad - Cuba bad, Contras good.  It's not that I disagree with any or all the 
slants, but the one-dimensionality of it all, which is probably the result of
time constraints, leaves me wanting more.  I find I can get the same news by 
word of mouth. 
	Television still presents ideas in a linear fashion; this is the e
essence of language.  The problem is that television gives the illusion of
the news occuring as you watch it.  The immediacy of the visual input saves
the viewer the trouble of organizing his thoughts on the subject, and of 
bringing to bear past experience.  Hence the short memory of the American
public.  The failure to stick to reading for any length of time is a lack
of concentration.  People think that television gives them understanding of the
world.  It doesn't. It only gives them an image of it.  An image without depth.
There is no easy way to gain depth of understanding, one must think and 
descriminate.
	If reading is too hard, I would suggest listening to foreign radio
news, or National Public Radio to get another side of the story.  It should
always be kept in mind the source of information.  Television is a commercial
enterprise.  But then keeping this in mind involves thinking, which perhaps 
Americans consider too much effort. 
  

bitter@ttidca.TTI.COM (Mark Bitter) (03/01/88)

> When I listen to music, I find that I don't have the 
> patience to listen to a long piece from beginning to end. 
> Its not a lack of concentration as much as a lack of interest.

> Tom Hajdu
> Music Dept, Princeton University
  ^^^^^^^^^^


      Gee, maybe you should reconsider your major..!


-- 
Mark Bitter (bitter@ttidca.TTI.COM)
Citicorp/TTI
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (213) 452-9191, x2425
Santa Monica, CA  90405 {csun|philabs|psivax|trwrb}!ttidca!bitter

doug@dhw68k.cts.com (Doug Salot) (03/04/88)

In article <1880@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> tom@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Thomas C Hajdu) writes:
>
>In general, I've been noticing that I am changing the modes by
>which I communicate. For example, when I want to 
>find out about something, reading feels less
>comfortable than does watching tv. 
>I get the sense that reading is less vital and available than it
>seems to have been in the past, while the availability of tv seems to 
>be constantly increasing. Even the act of writing these feelings
>down seems inappropriate -- negating the experience that I am trying to 
>describe. [other examples of slipping into a fast, montage-like world]

I found myself reflecting on similar notions recently.  For me, the
need for instantaneous access to lots of information is a biological
drive.  Since I was born in the sixties, I have no way of knowing if
things were really any different, but my lifetime has been characterized
by breadth rather than depth (education = liberal arts, interdisciplinary
science is in vogue, TV news and USA TODAY, businesses drive toward
diversification, &c), and SPEED is virtually a pagan god (just try to
find counter-examples (well, besides sex)).

While this discussion probably belongs in soc.iology, these drives
are very influential on my cognition and often my physiology.  I'm
always trying to buck the trend of losing interest in something once
I've discovered its "essence" (this can put a real burden on
relationships), and I become very nervous when I
have to wait or if I have to solve a problem all the way through to
the nit level.  I strive toward the quickest solution to something
even if it's detrimental (like eating dinner in a couple of
nanoseconds).  I'd love to slow down, but I'm a victim of society!

From a physiological standpoint, I'm a mess; economically, quality
has suffered, long-term research has suffered, global markets are
panic driven; socially, we do things like post netnews articles
instead of breaking bread together; politically, we have pigmies
trying to act like giants.  "Form over function" is the slogan
for the eighties.

I'm sorry I had to subject you to this, but it was easier than
thinking.

- Doug
-- 
Doug "" Salot = doug@dhw86k.cts.com = {trwrb,hplabs}!felix!dhw68k!feedme!doug
BIRTHRIGHT PARTY  | "To the moon, Alice" - Kent
CAMPAIGN SLUGANS? | "Got anth in my panth for the man from Xanth"

bill@sigma.UUCP (William Swan) (03/05/88)

In article <1887@physics.UUCP> greg@physics.UUCP (Greg Tusar) writes:
>I too have noticed quite the same phenomena. Much to my own distress, I find
>that I would rather watch the news on TV than actually sit down and read the
>paper. People tend to look for the more 'accessible', for lack of a better
>work, way of obtaining information. It is yet another indication of the 
>intellectual and cultural decline of America - this kind of fast food 
>approach to everything...

I seem to have come in on the middle of this.. but I don't think it's as
bad as Greg paints it.

One of the best things commercial television is doing for us is increasing
the number (I think) and sheer noise level (I am certain) of their ads.
For me, at least, the level has risen to the point where I will *not* turn
the tube on unless I have verified that there is a program I might want to
watch. The barrage of ads, and the inanity of TV reporters has driven me
away from TV news (how many times have you watched the banter between
anchors before and especially after "news" reports? Aren't they edifying?).

Since learning to read I've always read (at least part) of the newspapers,
but it was only when TV rose above my pain threshold that I started taking
a look at what I was getting from the two media. While it's true that the
paper has *never* offered anything as sensational as the live coverage of
the last stand of the Symbionese Liberation Army, the paper offers *much*
more information, on many more topics, without time out for advertising
for products I am completely indifferent to, than does the horned box.

I suspect that I am not alone in this. Those who want more comprehensive
information will find it, whether by papers, or magazines, or journals,
etc. Those who don't really care (and who in pre-TV days either listened
to radio news broadcasts or ignored the news completely) will continue
watching it.

If this country is in such an intellectual and cultural decline, when
were "the good old days", and how were they better?


-- 
William Swan  {ihnp4,decvax,allegra,...}!uw-beaver!tikal!sigma!bill
  "Once upon a time they burned witches. Not many, just one here and one 
   there, and it went on for a very, very long time.  Then one day they 
   started burning them right and left and then it was not very long at
   all before they quit burning them altogether."

jimh@ism780c.UUCP (Jim Hori) (03/05/88)

In article <1887@physics.UUCP> greg@physics.UUCP (Greg Tusar) writes:
>I too have noticed quite the same phenomena. Much to my own distress, I find that
>I would rather watch the news on TV than actually sit down and read the paper. 
>People tend to look for the more 'accessible', for lack of a better work, way of
>obtaining information. It is yet another indication of the intellectual and cultural
>decline of America - this kind of fast food approach to everything...
>
>-greg
>

That's why politicians are judged worthy of coverage
based on their ability to provide 'sound bites' - i.e.
short, catchy phrases - with content a neutral factor.

About your attention span problems with TV info versus
print media - my serious suggestion would be to get
rid of the TV.


jimh@ism780c.UUCP
awopbopaloobop
alopbamboom



...............................................................

tom@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Thomas C Hajdu) (03/06/88)

In article <2026@ttidca.TTI.COM> bitter@ttidca.tti.com (Mark Bitter) writes:
>> When I listen to music, I find that I don't have the 
>> patience to listen to a long piece from beginning to end. 
>> Its not a lack of concentration as much as a lack of interest.
>
>> Tom Hajdu
>> Music Dept, Princeton University
>  ^^^^^^^^^^
>
>
>      Gee, maybe you should reconsider your major..!


gee, thats really a nifty idea. i guess i'll just
chuck my PhD diss in the garbage and take up auto mechanics
or hotel management.

thanks for the advice! i am now going to scrub my 
terminal down with ammonia.

tom hajdu

tom@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Thomas C Hajdu) (03/06/88)

In article <9266@ism780c.UUCP> jimh@ism780c.UUCP (Jim Hori) writes:
>In article <1887@physics.UUCP> greg@physics.UUCP (Greg Tusar) writes:
>>I too have noticed quite the same phenomena. Much to my own distress, I find that
>>I would rather watch the news on TV than actually sit down and read the paper. 
>>People tend to look for the more 'accessible', for lack of a better work, way of
>>obtaining information. It is yet another indication of the intellectual and cultural
>>decline of America - this kind of fast food approach to everything...
>>
>>-greg
>>
>
>That's why politicians are judged worthy of coverage
>based on their ability to provide 'sound bites' - i.e.
>short, catchy phrases - with content a neutral factor.
>
>About your attention span problems with TV info versus
>print media - my serious suggestion would be to get
>rid of the TV.


When I posted my original question about (schizophrenic/
post-structuralist/post-modern/??) perception I was
sort of hoping to hear about books that I might read that
refered to my experience: Mcluhan, Kroker, Chambers, Foster,
Kern, Venturi, Turkle, Lowe, Foucault, Eco come to mind
as writers who bounce off of these feelings in one
way or another.

If I'm off the mark in posting this question at this newsgroup,
please let me know. 

tom hajdu
music dept.
princeton university

pyr280@psc90.UUCP (Michael McNamara) (03/06/88)

In article <9266@ism780c.UUCP> jimh@ism780c.UUCP (Jim Hori) writes:
>In article <1887@physics.UUCP> greg@physics.UUCP (Greg Tusar) writes:
>>I too have noticed quite the same phenomena. Much to my own distress, I find that
>>I would rather watch the news on TV than actually sit down and read the paper. 
>>People tend to look for the more 'accessible', for lack of a better work, way of
>>obtaining information. It is yet another indication of the intellectual and cultural
>>decline of America - this kind of fast food approach to everything...
>>
>>-greg
>>
>
>That's why politicians are judged worthy of coverage
>based on their ability to provide 'sound bites' - i.e.
>short, catchy phrases - with content a neutral factor.
>
>About your attention span problems with TV info versus
>print media - my serious suggestion would be to get
>rid of the TV.
>
>
>jimh@ism780c.UUCP
>awopbopaloobop
>alopbamboom
>
>
>
>...............................................................


	I don't know if I agree with you completely about throwing out
 one's telivision set if it isn't providing him/her with enough in-
 formation on items of importance.  I belive that TV should be used simply
 as another reference source that provides the individual with a brief
 synopsis of thousands of subjects daily.  If there is a topic that is 
 presented either in a news program, on public television, or on a special
 focus show (48hrs, Nightline, etc.) that does interest a person, what's
 preventing him from getting off his duff and looking for newspapers, books
 or periodicals that will provide more information!
	We are all mature adults here (I believe), and I for one, will not
 allow just one media to provide me with all the information that I need.
 Let's face it, the problem here is not TV.  I believe that the problem 
 resides in the apathy of the individual.  If one really wants to under-
 stand an issue, then he must take the responsibility to find the infor-
 mation himself.  When TV becomes the only source availailable, then it
 will have to present *all* of the facts surrounding an issue; until then
 I suggest that we stop fooling ourselves into thinking that the networks
 are accountable for our educations.  We only have ourselves to blame.

                                   Mike McNamara

eliot@mind.UUCP (Eliot Handleman) (03/08/88)

In article <1979@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> tom@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Thomas C Hajdu) writes:
>When I posted my original question about (schizophrenic/
>post-structuralist/post-modern/??) perception I was
>sort of hoping to hear about books that I might read that
>refered to my experience: Mcluhan, Kroker, Chambers, Foster,
>Kern, Venturi, Turkle, Lowe, Foucault, Eco come to mind
>as writers who bounce off of these feelings in one
>way or another.



Ok, I'll bite: in what way exactly do those authors bounce off of those
feelings (which, I seem to recall, had to do with a preference for switching
TV channels over reading long books)?

gcf@actnyc.UUCP (Gordon Fitch) (03/09/88)

In article <1977@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> tom@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Thomas C Hajdu) writes:
} In article <2026@ttidca.TTI.COM> bitter@ttidca.tti.com (Mark Bitter) writes:
} } }  When I listen to music, I find that I don't have the 
} } }  patience to listen to a long piece from beginning to end. 
} } }  Its not a lack of concentration as much as a lack of interest.
} } 
} } }  Tom Hajdu
} } }  Music Dept, Princeton University
} }   ^^^^^^^^^^
} } 
} } 
} }       Gee, maybe you should reconsider your major..!
} 
} 
} gee, thats really a nifty idea. i guess i'll just
} chuck my PhD diss in the garbage and take up auto mechanics
} or hotel management.
}

I don't know about hotel management, but auto mechanics takes
a lot of concentration, an extended span of attention, and
great ability to press on in spite of frustration.  If
you're any good, though, you can probably do better than a lot 
of PhD's in both income and job satisfaction.